Behind the Business
Behind the Business is presented by the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce. Sponsored by Gore Mutual, this podcast features weekly episodes hosted by Ian McLean, President and CEO of the Greater KW Chamber.
It is recorded on the traditional territory of the Neutral, Anishinaabeg, and Haudenosaunee, peoples.
Each week Ian sits down for candid conversations, taking listeners beyond the boardroom and Behind the Business to uncover the real stories within Waterloo Region’s business community.
From innovation and sustainability to leadership and community impact, each guest offers invaluable perspectives and inspiring journeys. Discover what drives their ambition, and WHO is fueling the future of Waterloo Region’s success.
Join us as we go Behind the Business!
Behind the Business
BDC Small Business Week: Behind The WAR Room Baseball Training Centre
Today’s episode is sponsored by BDC – the bank for Canadian entrepreneurs, as we celebrate BDC Small Business Week, from October 19-25. Each day, we’re spotlighting a different small business owner from our community — the people who power our local economy, create jobs, and bring innovation to life. We’re also excited to have this year’s theme focus on the economic revolution, and getting your business ready.
Today, we’re sitting down with Bruce Ysselstein (Eyes-el-stein) of The WAR Room Baseball Training Centre. A lifelong baseball enthusiast, Bruce turned his passion for the game into a space where athletes of all ages can develop not just their skills, but their confidence, discipline, and love for the sport. Through The WAR Room, he’s creating a community where mentorship, teamwork, and growth go hand in hand.
We’ll unpack what fuels Bruce’s passion for the game, and how that same drive powers his work as a coach and entrepreneur.
Join us as we go “Behind the Business” with Bruce Ysselstein (Eyes-el-stein).
Get a look Behind the Business in Waterloo Region with Ian McLean, President & CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce.
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business, presented by Gore Mutual. Today's episode is also sponsored by BDC as we celebrate BDC Small Business Week. I'm your host, Ian McLean, president and CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterdoo Chamber of Commerce. This podcast is recorded on the traditional territory of the neutral Anishinabe and Hodenishone peoples. Each episode, I sit down for candid conversations where we go beyond the boardroom and behind the business to uncover the real stories within Waterdoo Region's business community. Today's episode is sponsored by BDC, the Bank for Canadian Entrepreneurs, as we celebrate BDC Small Business Week from October 19th to 25th. Each day, we're spotlighting a different small business owner from our community, the people who power our local economy, create jobs, and bring innovation to life. We're also excited to have this year's theme focus on the economic revolution and getting your business ready. Today we're sitting down with Bruce Eiselstein of the War Room Baseball Training Center, a lifelong baseball enthusiast. Bruce turned his passion for the game into a space where athletes of all ages can develop not just their skills, but their confidence, discipline, and love for the sport. Through the War Room, he's creating a community where mentorship, teamwork, and growth go hand in hand. We'll unpack what fuels uh Bruce's passion for the game and how that drive powers his work as a coach and entrepreneur. Join me as we go behind the business with Bruce Eiselsein. Well, thanks for joining us today. I know one of the most valuable commodities that business people have and entrepreneurs have is time. So we thank you for sharing some of your valuable time with us today. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate uh appreciate the opportunity, B.
SPEAKER_02:Now, so let's start at the beginning. I mean, this is this con this series this week is around entrepreneurs and and and and business folks. And as much as anything, it's a little bit about leadership, uh, but also uh the business, uh, the business story behind but with behind entrepreneurs. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and how it came to be. It's always a fascinating uh uh journey of how things happen.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I you sort of allude to it there. You know, I I think the neat and tidy answer would be, well, I I went to school for this and I transitioned into this. And I think with a lot of entrepreneurs, it's it's the uh the other side of that that pendulum. I went to school for economics and stumbled my way into project management. I don't think anyone grows up saying, hey, I want to be a project manager. Um, but my most recent business venture, uh, the War Room Baseball Training Center in Guelph is something that, and I and I know we'll get to this, but it's something that I think fills a need. It's a bit of a passion project for myself and and my partners. We all come from, and I'll say several decades and uh 20 or so pounds ago, but we all come from high-level sport, and we believe in the the value of youth sport, not just in the sporting sense, but in the in the youth development sense. So I read, me personally, in this recent business venture, I read an article, and I'm gonna say it was in probably Entrepreneur Magazine or something like that, about five years ago on four regular dads, uh Northeastern United States from memory, whose kids didn't, they have a similar climate to us, they didn't have a place to train in the offseason. And they decided to start a small, it wasn't even a small business at the time, it was just a an indoor space. And that grew and grew and grew, and over the course of 15 years grew into a multi-million dollar business that obviously has has been successful on the profitability standpoint from a profitability standpoint, but also in terms of the number of kids that they have helped to develop into not just great athletes, hopefully, but young adults with grit and determination and work ethic and all those things. So um that planted the seed for me. And then about 14 months ago, the head coach of my son's baseball team uh came to me. The season was over, we were walking across the grass outfield towards the parking lot, and he said, Hey, in a few weeks, when we've had some time to catch our breath, I wouldn't mind talking to you about a business idea I have. And I don't know why, but I knew what he was talking about. And I turned and I said, Is it by chance an indoor baseball training facility? And shocked, he said, Yeah, it is. And a couple of weeks later, we were sitting down with um an additional person that we brought into the the mix at that point, uh talking about what that might look like and and went from there.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's it's always fascinating how the idea of a business comes from from if for many entrepreneurs for something they're passionate about. When you think about so so it's still early days. I mean, in the grand scheme of this business, it's still early days. But when you think back to the start, the very start, um, what was the biggest learning curve or surprise? Because you come from business background, you've done project management, but you know, running your own your own business, especially a startup business, what this is, there must have been some, you know, learning that that you got you you got from that or or or roadblocks. What were some of the things that surprised you about about this new venture?
SPEAKER_01:Maybe I'll answer that uh twofold. As you as you pointed out, yes, I I come, I have a fairly long business experience background. Uh it's not my first startup. And one of the things I learned early on that, and it's the same as anything, as you learn something, you then apply that to future um businesses in this case. One of the things I learned early on is that there is a big difference between what we as entrepreneurs might think people are people will value, people will pay for, perhaps even what people say they will value and will pay for, versus when it's time to actually pay for it, what they will actually pay for. And I think I I've certainly been involved in businesses prior where on paper it was a it was a home run, so to speak.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but I've learned through experience that you you need to dig a little bit deeper into that. Talk to people about the specifics, uh, look at other existing businesses if if that's possible. And what are how do the numbers work there? So that that's the first thing. And and when we first started this business, or the the business planning element of this business, one of the things that and we had some serious between myself and my partners, we had some serious discussions about this. One of the things that I was ardent about was these numbers look great, but how do we know these numbers are are real? And I think that's that's a a big learning that I that I brought to those early business planning stages. The other thing I probably need to talk about is the element of, especially if you have a physical location, the element of of zoning, of permitting, that sort of thing. They're all necessities. We can we can argue till we're blue in the face about the validity of some of them, but they're a reality. And especially when you are talking about both budgeting, and that would be money and time, you need to take those things into account because they take a lot longer than most people think.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think that that's really important. And you know, asking questions, uh, especially at the at the front end and having mentors who have been through some of those things, who've got some experience in that is really important because you're right. The budgeting of time in the early days is as important as anything else. So you manage your cash flow. Uh, and and it you're it's a it's a very good point for especially for others that are watching this and may think I'm gonna start my own business. They're like, you know, learning from others' mistakes is probably the best uh best thing you can do. Yeah, this is true for everybody that's ever been in business broadly, but specifically for small business owners. So you got three partners, you may have some staff, but ultimately it's a small operation right now. Small businesses owners wear a lot of hats. Um, you know, you gotta do payroll, you gotta do deal with government and taxes and scheduling and you know, staffing, you name it, you're doing it, and you're probably between the three, you're doing a little bit of all of it together, even if even if you divide it. So you're doing wearing lots of hats. What if what have you learned about yourself as a leader or entrepreneur through the process? I mean, one of the things that I hear often is I'm not good at everything, and I gotta find somebody who's good at the things that I'm not good at. Is it is is that one of those areas? Like what have you learned about yourself? Yeah, unquestionable.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and I think, you know, I'd go one step further. It's not just, well, dealing with government, dealing with payroll, dealing with, you know, all of these other things. It's refilling the paper towel in the washroom. Well, as a small business owner, I mean, it's it's the full spectrum and not it, no exaggeration there. I I think what I've learned over the years, and and this venture has been no different, is that I'm reminded of how little I know about the things that I know little about. And to your point, there are times we live in an age where you know Google quite literally contains the entirety or the almost the entirety of human knowledge. There are times when you can answer a question very quickly and it's there. But there are times when you need an expert, be that um just from an experience standpoint or just a knowledge standpoint, and you need to reach out to those people and the the the networking, the mentors, in my case, the partners are all a big part of what that solution looks like.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I as as we got started with Trump and tariffs, uh, to your point. I've been doing this for 15 years, I've been in business for some fashion for 30 years. And when they started talking about tariffs and dim, you know, there's all kinds of terminology, but I have not heard of any of this. And so going to a at KPMG and having a session with someone going, oh my God, I know nothing about tariffs and how it impacts my members. Like it's so detailed. So even if it was on the internet, I wouldn't have understood what it was, what it was saying. And so, you know, in one of those cases, I'm like, okay, we need to bring some of these people on. You need to make it accessible for for our members in the in the same way you're talking about. If you don't know something about it, it can get very complicated and you got to ask the people that know about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's the downfall of the, you know, I referenced the the Google being the entirety of human knowledge. The the flip side to that is it's the biggest haystack that man has ever known, and you're trying to find the needle in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_02:So finding partners, so you got your own partners, but also trusted partners, whether it's accountants, whether it's your traditional banking, BDC is one of those that we've been a big proponent at the chamber. They've been they've they're very involved with us, obviously, in Small Business Week, uh, our small business awards, but BDC is one of those valuable partners, particularly for entrepreneurs, for smaller businesses, uh, because of the the the complementary things they can do to support business. So talk about, you know, how did you develop the relationship with BDC and how did it get started? Like how did you find out about them or or or make the connection? And how have they supported your venture? Because it's different than traditional financing or or angel investors or or your, you know, like they play a very specific role, but an important one for small business and and entrepreneurs. Yeah, unquestionably.
SPEAKER_01:Well, so some advice I got very early on in my business career, uh, the first business that I was involved in. Um, someone who knew much more at the time than than I did said to me, and let me be clear, there are things in business that you are going to spend money on that you'll look back on and think, boy, that was that was not the best way to spend the money. But this mentor said to me, the first thing you do, find a great accounting firm. And you will pay for it, but it will be money well spent, I assure you. And the first question you ask them once you have that relationship is, can you refer me to a good law firm? And that will be a lot of money, but it will be money well spent. And I've had those same two relationships for near 20 years now with the that same accounting firm and that same law firm. And when this business got to the point where it was, okay, let's move forward with this. Um it was actually the my contact at that accounting firm who said, you know what? This is really well suited to the BDC business model. Let me make that introduction. Um, he did to our now account manager, uh Amanda. And she's been, she and BDC more broadly have been fantastic through this process because I think one of the things that BDC BDC did for us was and and to to some extent, I suppose this is what they're known for. They can look at a business for what it could be. Yeah. Whereas traditional banks are they're based on the numbers, yeah. What you are, right? Um so certainly a second set of eyes to look at those those business plans in a in a critical but very experienced way. They brought great value that way. Um from a business planning and specifically financial planning standpoint, the flexibility that is there in terms of long-term um you know, financing, that sort of thing, that just isn't offered in traditional banks. And then I think the third thing is BDC comes with a lot of additional resources. Yeah, I I uh consulting and and the and the expertise they bring. Yeah, or even you know, a monthly email that drops into my box with a hey, here's an article that you might be interested in. And some of those maybe not. Yeah. But others, hey, that's good knowledge.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, and and they the I think that's the the part that I don't think people know is that they have both the the fight traditional financing part, but they also have the advisory services, which can be which can be low or no cost, but but it certainly it's it's a great value.
SPEAKER_00:An economic revolution is underway, and your business is at the heart of it. Now, this month's Christmas week, we celebrate the entrepreneurs writing the next chapter. You're not following it, but you're leading it. Get inspired, network, and go for it. The economic revolution is here. Is your business ready?
SPEAKER_02:So we've talked about BDC. The most successful businesses lean on collaboration with other businesses, local partners, um, you know, sponsors or or or you know, um folks that they do business with, and organizations like BDC for sure. But how have those partnerships and mentorship uh or those that are helping you as mentors or the financial resources um, whether it's bank or BDC, helped you get where you are today? Because it's it's I I imagine what I always hear is it's a little bit of it, it's not just one thing. It's it's it's I you know, borrow the it takes a village to raise a kid, you know, and that's that's where baseball and sports, and I'm more involved in basketball and started a basketball organization for girls, because I had two girls that were playing basketball. But it takes a village for those things to succeed, you know, much like it would for a new startup like yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So we've talked a little bit about, you know, I I am one of four partners, and the makeup of that partnership has a lot to do with our what constitutes our own area of expertise. I come a lot more from the business side of things. One of my partners, one of my partners um comes from very high level baseball. His his education was down in the in the US on a baseball scholarship. Um he's now an educator here in well in in Guelph. Um and you know, and that applies to the other two partners as well. We all have our own areas of expertise that typically there's overlap, but they complement where I might be wanting one of my other partners fills in that gap. So that I think that's that's key. I couldn't have done this business on my own. Um that said, there are those, you know, I referenced earlier, that long-term relationship with an accounting firm, with a law firm. We've we've talked a little bit about BDC, but I also have over with without getting into age too much, you know, I've been in the workplace for 30 years. And over that time, I've established some very good relationships. Relationships that I can now pick up the phone and say, hey, I'm thinking about this. What are your thoughts on that? And the the key to those types of relationships, um, mentorships, is that those people will give you their honest opinion. We're always surrounded as entrepreneurs when we're doing a startup by people who are saying, Hey, great, good for you, go for it. But we also need those people who are gonna say, Hey, have you thought of this? Be careful doing this.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's it's it is you've got the that network of mentors, but I think you're probably a mentor to them. Like they would do the same. They're thinking of something saying, I I I wonder what what you think about about that. So it's it's it's kind of full circle, but you need those networks that will give you that honest assessment of whether it's a wise thing to invest money or time or or move into a market. Listen, and and it brings us to this week's uh or this year's theme for BDC Small Business Week is the economic revolution is here. Get your business ready. And I think it's very timely given what's happening with Canada-U.S. trade relations, the global marketplace. Um, it there is an economic revolution, if you want to call it that, but it's there's disruption to say the very least. Yeah. Um, and it's timely because Canada's business landscape is is shifting fast. What's have you made a change or is is there a change you've already made or are planning to make in your business to adapt to these structural shifts? Like, does it affect your business? I mean, you're you're you're dealing with kids and families, but you know, they're all workers, they're part of the community, they're they're impacted by other things. Um, are you thinking about uh you know adopting new technology to support business as an example?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, technology is sort of the most obvious one. Our business, baseball, the baseball industry specifically, but I I certainly don't think this is unique to the baseball industry. That technology is a powerful tool when used appropriately. Um, you know, some of the technologies that we have within our facility allow instructors um or athletes training at a probably the higher half of this of the spectrum to train more effectively, more efficient use of their time, unquestionably. And yeah, as part of our business planning, we we looked at all of the technology that's out there and decided which ones worked, which ones didn't. Sometimes it was from a that's a you know that it's it's a bit of a bit just flashy. Yeah. Um, in other instances, it's well, what's the return on investment? What's the opportunity cost of spending the money on that technology as opposed to something else? But I think on the business side of things too, boy. I I think that if you are an entrepreneur right now and you are not taking advantage of technology to allow you to be efficient with your time, you're doing yourself a disservice. There are I one of my other businesses, uh business interests is that I do some advisory stuff with other small businesses. And the first thing I see so often is an old school reliance. You know, it's it's funny because I've got a I've got a paper journal here, productivity planner that I use every day. But the number of times where I see people just being bogged down with, for lack of a better term, time sucks that could be wiped out. Automated. Automated with with technology. Um in many cases there's a cost to that. In many cases, there isn't. And I think that's something that we definitely take advantage of in our business. And I I can't see how there's a business out there that couldn't take advantage of that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm with you because as a someone who puts yellow stickies in his pocket to remind me where I need to go next, uh, even though I've got it on my phone, yeah. I'm sort of stuck between both worlds, but there are things that certainly for our members and for us at the chamber saying we have to, we have to be leveraging those technologies. Listen, many small businesses will be listening or watching the podcast. What advice would you give to other entrepreneurs looking to start a new business in our community? Because there's the yeah, there's a checklist of things you got a good idea, or it's you're passionate about it is your actual business. You talked about doing checking the numbers and verifying you know your a lot of those pieces, but what would be kind of a a couple of pieces of advice for someone that's thinking of starting down that entrepreneurial journey? Right.
SPEAKER_01:I I think two things. Uh the first is start with a business plan. And if that's something that you are comfortable doing, you have experience doing, do that. If it isn't, find somebody who can help you do that. And I and I mean a good business plan. But when you think that business plan is done, spend an equal amount of time trying to break it. Figure out what are all the assumptions I've made here and how could those possibly go wrong, no matter how unlikely that might be. And in every scenario where you can break that business plan, come up with a plan to address that. And if you can't, you have to seriously look at whether or not that's a foundational element of the business plan. I think that as, and I'm, you know, I'm I'm as much at fault as anyone, but I think as entrepreneurs, these are often passion projects. And we're excited and we want them to succeed, and we we put on the rose-colored glasses sometimes. And it's your business. You're you're investing a little or a lot. Take the time to make sure that you're not looking at it through those rose-colored glasses.
SPEAKER_02:Very wise counsel. Listen, looking ahead, you're you're you're new, you go again, what did you say, 14 months or so that the the the business has been up and running? Yeah. So what's next for? Like what where do you see your growth? Uh, what's over the horizon for the next chapter in your in the business?
SPEAKER_01:I'll be careful how I say this, just in case our uh Amanda from BDC is is listening to this because I might I might uh give her a heart attack. But I I think that that sort of three, five-year plan down the road, there's definitely the element of expansion uh within that business. But we are also very baseball specific. We already have people who are coming to us saying, Hey, I know you're a baseball facility. But what about basketball? But what about this? What about that? And as much as our facility caters to baseball and softball, um there's a lot of youth athletes out there that the same benefit that we see for our business for them. There's a lot of youth athletes out there that don't play baseball, they play soccer, they play basketball, they're into track and field or cross country or whatever it is. And there's a lot of underserved sports. I mean, we're we're Southern Ontario, hockey, and hockey parents would probably disagree with this, but hockey gets a lot of focus. We're in the middle of a Blue Jays run for the World Series right now, so baseball's getting more focus than it maybe typically does. But there are opportunities out there too, with the same business model that that that we've used for this.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I think it it's it's it's always you got to look over the horizon, but but make sure you're doing the planning before you uh you take the next step. Listen, and I said this is off the top. This is about so it's it's always here good to hear the entrepreneurial story, particularly in in BDC Small Business Week. But it's also about leadership because how you approach various things or what's important to you tells a lot about how you're going to respond to business issues or you know challenges along the way. So it is, I always ask this same set of what I call the rapid fire questions because it's always fascinating to hear uh because there's no right or wrong answers how people kind of respond to these questions. So I I I love this one because it's it's interesting um where people slot this in. But if you could go back and tell your a younger version of yourself, it doesn't have to be when you're a kid, but what would you tell yourself if you could go back in time and tell a younger version of yourself something? Oh boy.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I referenced it earlier, but take the time. I I use a I use a book, but it could be a blank sheet of paper. Take the time every day to plan out your productivity. I think so many people, and you don't have to be a an entrepreneur for this, you can be a parent, you can be a CEO. If you wake up first thing in the day and think, I'm just gonna let the day take over, you I found early on, I had a very large number of nights where I laid my head on the pillow and thought, boy, I got, I was really busy today, and I got nothing done that was on my list of priorities. So every day I take the time to sit down, usually five minutes or so at night, and then another five or ten minutes in the morning, to just write down what did I get done today? And in the morning, what are my priorities for today? And and and when I look at that, I'm I'm fairly strict about it. I don't check my email, I don't answer the phone, I get those priorities done, even if there's screaming um priorities elsewhere. I get them done first.
SPEAKER_02:That's really wise advice because uh, you know, I come from a bit of a political background. There's always the crisis of the day which crowds out the planning for what are the big things you want to get done, and so you wonder why you're always in. Reactive mode versus proactive mode. Okay, who or what has inspired you along your your journey?
SPEAKER_01:Wow. From a business leadership, or or maybe more broadly, just business perspective. High-level athletes. But l let me put a caveat on that. Probably not the ones that most people think of. And I say that because something I know from my own background of many of the high-level athletes that most people would recognize their names is their devotion to, in their case, that sport, their willingness to give up almost everything else to it to achieve that. When I talk to youth athletes, one of the things I'm I'm fond of saying is if you want to achieve the things that others don't, you have to be willing to do the things that others can't or won't. And extremely high-level athletes, they have that. That for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, if you weren't in your current career, and you've you've had some some various uh, you know, I've been in business, you've done different things. What would you be doing if you weren't doing what you're doing right now?
SPEAKER_01:I have two, I have two kids, uh 15-year-old daughter, 12-year-old son. If I still had kids, but I wasn't in my current career, I'd probably be doing something. I would have loved to have gone into the the medical profession. And my mother was a nurse, my grandmother was a nurse. Um, because I always admired those people for every day, good day, bad day, or otherwise. They come home and they've they've added to the world. They've made the world a better place. Um and I and I always respected that and was always something that I I had a keen interest in. If I didn't have kids, Ian, I would be a mountain guide in the wintertime and a fly fishing guide in the in the summertime.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you you've just said physicist and I or uh physicists, I flunked out of signs, and you you know those are those are some some uh some great great great great ideas. Listen, um uh I mean I'm always interested in what people are reading or what podcast you're watching or or listening to. Um what are what are the things that that you do to kind of recharge or let go? Um what what that that to keep your attention?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I I I try to get outdoors as often as I can in terms of recharging. That might be taking the dog for a walk at lunchtime or something like that. In terms of you mentioned books, um, I'm reading, or let's be honest, rereading. I think this is maybe my fourth time reading it. Um, a book called Endure, E-N-D-U-R-E by Alex Hutchinson. Um, phenomenal book about the the role that that maintaining a positive mindset has in not just our daily lives, but how it ties into performance, mental and physical performance. Brilliant book. Um podcasts, I drive a lot. Uh both my kids are involved in high-level sport, which unfortunately has me on the road uh more than I probably ever thought possible. Um, so I do listen to a lot of podcasts, and one of my favorites is The Economist. Great, great podcast, and I think they do a good job of um, in layman's terms, putting some perspective on the world.
SPEAKER_02:Cool. Okay, and uh what's your favorite local business here in Waterdoo Region? Restaurant or coffee shop? Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think you could name any Thai restaurant in and it would probably be on there. I I I live in Guelph, so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go with a a Guelph Thai restaurant. There's a a place called Naha Thai, N-A-H-A, I believe. Um it's literally run out of a of a the lower level of a house. Um I've been to Thailand and spent a great deal of time there. Um one of my favorite Thai restaurants is uh in in Ottawa, where I where I went to school, but but here in the KW region, Naha Thai.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'll I'll have to make a point when I'm when I'm in great place. Okay, uh for for for where's the best place for anyone listening or watching the podcast to connect with you and learn more about your business uh and and connect with you personally?
SPEAKER_01:So um it specifically the the the baseball training uh center, uh the war room, um, you can check us out online, uh www.warroombaseball.com. We are um uh other people take care of this, but we are on the socials, EWR baseball, uh, Instagram and Facebook. Um if somebody's looking to get a hold of me specifically, um, by all means, they can email me Bruce Y at Warroombaseball.com.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, uh, thanks so much for taking time. Uh, you know, we've already heard you it it being a small business and an entrepreneur takes a lot of time. And so thank you for spending some of your valuable time with us today. Thank you, and I appreciate it. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the Business, proudly presented by Gore Mutual. Thanks again to BDC for this special Small Business Week episode. We're celebrating all week and dropping a new episode each day. You can also visit greater kwchamber.com to catch up on past episodes anytime. We'll see you next time as we continue to go behind the business.
