Behind the Business
Behind the Business is presented by the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce. Sponsored by Gore Mutual, this podcast features weekly episodes hosted by Ian McLean, President and CEO of the Greater KW Chamber.
It is recorded on the traditional territory of the Neutral, Anishinaabeg, and Haudenosaunee, peoples.
Each week Ian sits down for candid conversations, taking listeners beyond the boardroom and Behind the Business to uncover the real stories within Waterloo Region’s business community.
From innovation and sustainability to leadership and community impact, each guest offers invaluable perspectives and inspiring journeys. Discover what drives their ambition, and WHO is fueling the future of Waterloo Region’s success.
Join us as we go Behind the Business!
Behind the Business
The Good Effect: Reimagining Insurance Through Purpose, People, and Progress with Andy Taylor and Neil Park
In this episode of Behind the Business, we sit down with Andy Taylor, President & CEO of Gore Mutual Insurance Company, and Neil Parkinson, Chair of Gore’s Board of Directors.
Built on a foundation of financial strength for more than 180 years, Gore is one of Canada’s first property and casualty insurance companies. They are deeply rooted in community and are driving bold change with their intention to merge with Beneva, bringing together two well established, financially strong, trusted brands to reinforce the meaningful role of mutuals in the Canadian insurance industry.
Andy and Neil share how Gore is driving bold transformation, balancing innovation with regulation, shaping the future of mutuals in Canada, and fostering a culture of “Spreading Good,” both in the Waterloo Region and across Canada.
Join us as we go Behind the Business with Andy Taylor and Neil Parkinson of Gore Mutual.
Get a look Behind the Business in Waterloo Region with Ian McLean, President & CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce.
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business, presented by Gore Mutual. I'm your host, Ian McLean, President and CEO of the Greater Kitchen Waterdoo Chamber of Commerce. This podcast is recorded on the traditional territory of the neutral Anichinabe and Haudenosaunee peoples. Each week I sit down for candid conversations where we go beyond the boardroom and behind the business to uncover the real stories of Waterdoo Region's business community. Today I'm delighted to welcome Andy Taylor, President and CEO of Gore Mutual Insurance Company, and he's joined by Neil Parkinson, Chair of Gore's Board of Directors. Built on a foundation of financial strength for more than 180 years, Gore is one of Canada's first property and casualty insurance companies. They're deeply rooted in community and are driving bold change with their intention to merge with Beneva, bringing together two well-established, financially strong, trusted brands to reinforce the meaningful role of mutuals in the Canadian insurance industry. Since 2020, Gore has advanced its next horizon vision, evolving from a regional municipal mutual to a purpose-driven, digitally led national insurer, with the merger poised to accelerate growth and profitability. In this conversation, Andy and Neil share their perspectives on leadership, transformation, and the bold steps Gore is taking to shape the future of mutuals in Canada. We'll explore how Gore is navigating technology, talent, and innovation, the importance of fostering a culture of spreading good, and how community partnerships from local hospitals to ambitious climate initiatives are influencing strategy and impact. Let's go behind the business with Andy Taylor and Neil Parkinson of Gore. Well, Andy and Neil, thanks so much for attending, taking us out of your busy schedule. We're both we're excited to have you here uh today to join us and and uh and really explore what's happening at Gore, which is exciting for the region. Thanks for joining us today.
Andy Taylor:Great.
Neil Parkinson:Thanks for the opportunity to be here too.
Ian McLean:So, uh Andy, you were initially recruited, and so I want to kind of go with the history of the two of you and then kind of come to the present of what's what's happening with with Gore, which is again, as I say, uh a welcome development for Waterdo Region. Um but you were recruited to Gore um as part of a long-term succession plan for the CFO, CFO role, um, and ultimately to take take the helm as CEO in the middle. And you joined, and that process sort of was smack dab in the middle of a global pandemic. If anyone remembers, we went through COVID. Walk us through that transition and what it was like stepping into the CEO role during what was obviously unprecedented and and uh and you know uncertain. It doesn't even do justice to what it was. What were the biggest lessons you carried from from being in that in that uh crucible of of change and and crisis?
Andy Taylor:Yeah, it's it's quite an incredible time, Ian. I think we talked about it you know, the beginning of the transformation. But uh I went home for Christmas, um, came back excited about the new role, coming in as uh CEO of Gore Mutual. And as you say, I this year marks 20 years with the company. So I've been with the company for many years. I was the CFO for close to a decade, had led the strategy, was excited. We were good, just getting ready to kick it off in early January. And as you say, the the pandemic hit. And it was quite incredible because we had hired quite literally hundreds of new employees to work on the transformation. We had consultants lined up. Um, and then as you know, the whole world sort of uh started working from home. And I I guess a couple of key things I learned that I still carry with me as a leader today. Um, we had a decision point early in that process. You know, do we actually keep going? Right, this is a major uh program we were on. Do we actually um stay the course to our strategy? Or we could have actually paused and said, you know, there's a lot of unknowns right now. And uh again, I'm very proud, but at the time we decided and you know, spent a lot of time on our board talking about it too, was you know, not only should we keep going, but we should accelerate the work that we're doing, take advantage of um the environment that that we were in, which ended up being amazing because we were so internally focused, have working from home and and doing all the things we were doing during the pandemic, we were able to actually move faster through the transformation. So I think the first thing was that like stay sort of true, staying true to your strategy, um, even though you're getting sort of curveballs thrown at you. And then I think that the second one was um, you know, it was always obvious to me that um the talent would be the sort of reason for why we were gonna actually be successful, but that um just resonated so strongly throughout the pandemic. We were able to attract new talent to the organization. Um, we we had a hybrid model that we had opened up, which unlocked our ability to attract new talent with this with the strategy. So I think those two sort of lessons I still um really lean into today, like staying true to the the strategy. Because we're you know, pretty much every year that we that I've been in this industry, there's some sort of a crisis that's gonna come at us. That that year it happened to be the pandemic, as you know this year we're dealing with tariffs and all these other things. But those two principles of getting um great talent and staying true to your long-term strategy have really voted well for us.
Ian McLean:And that was one of the things that at the start of the pandemic, and I met with my board and said, geez, what are we going to do? We we, you know, had no idea what the financials were gonna look like. But said the only thing we have is the people that that served our 1600 members when they needed help the most. And so kind of sticking to that that we're we're in service of the business community, and that that's uh that's that's wise uh those that didn't do that and didn't invest in their people and keep their people up, I think are paying paying a price uh for not having done that during the pandemic. Neil, you've been, and I I will say I'm gonna be polite about saying this, you've got four decades, even though you look like a young man, four decades in the financial services and insurance uh sector, and nearly five years as chair of Gore's board of directors. Um, and you had an uh you know front row seat to the organization evolution, not only the pandemic, but but again, again in this transition with Veneva. Walk us through what originally drew you to Gore and how you see the board's sort of strategic mandate shaping the the organization's direction because it starts with strict strategy, but it actually uh has to hit the the reality of how to run a business.
Neil Parkinson:Well, first of all, you're a sweet talking devil. It wasn't just four decades, it's been five decades. Uh next month uh will be the 53rd anniversary of me walking through the front door of Gore as a uh I'm you know first-year co-op student at University of Waterloo when I was working for KPMG at uh is you know, the audit firm I was with after that for a long time. And so uh I've been involved with Gore continuously since then, you know, as um you know, as an external auditor, as an advisor in a lot of ways, then um as a policy holder as well, a member throughout that. And uh really in the last nine years uh on the board of directors, the last half of that as the chair. So it goes back a ways. Uh so I'm not sure some I I chose Gore so much as maybe they chose me or that I was around and they didn't know what to do with me. So um I I guess um you're right, it it has given me a lot of perspective as well as an affection, obviously, from the organization. I've had the privilege of working with a lot of really fine people uh at the company, but also on the board, some really uh impressive people, both locally and nationally, uh, you know, important figures. Uh and that's that's been one of the things that's really kept my interest in wanting to be involved with the company and give me a real emotional stake in its success, I think, too. Um you know, you asked about uh, you know, the board's strategic um approach and vision. And uh sometimes boards might seem to, you know, um ask management to come back with a strategy and they get a bunch of three-ring binders and they they say nod sagely and say, Yeah, I approve that, but uh that's not the right thing to do from a governance perspective, and it's not what our board did, in fact, uh throughout uh Andy's tenure as CEO was really when we really took a hard look at strategy. And the board was very much involved before we got to the point of forming anything that could get three-hole punched and shoved in a binder. So we we really did look at the uh uh, you know, basically what our strategic options were. It was very collaborative effort throughout, and I think it was you know a much better product as a result, as well as being a lot more interesting and satisfying for directories, and I think for management too. You know, board can't boards can be useful, and I think our board was. Um, so we looked at a lot of factors, you know, compet uh the changes in the competitive environment, the consolidation in financial services, and particularly in insurance, how the distribution system, all the brokers and so on we deal with. Um, also issues about scale of operations and efficiency and uh diversification risks. We all watch TV and see fires, floods, think about earthquakes. Fortunately, haven't had to see them uh locally, you know, touch wood. Um but uh that those have all been these drivers to thinking about what the right thing to do is. And I'm sure we'll talk about a lot of the that and the rationale for it. But it's was really good for us having explained all those drivers and what the preferred approach was for the company in our view and management's view. Um that's really um you know a good and affirming for us to get the members' vote 95% in favor last April and more recently close to 98% in the final vote on the merger process. So we hope we've got it right. We hope they aren't wrong too in supporting us. But I I think it's been a great, great process for all of us.
Ian McLean:Yeah, and I think I think what one of the things is it through that process, 180 years old as a company, and then taking I wouldn't say it's not a totally new direction, but it is it is a is a significant shift, which uh which which you know and it takes both sides. It takes the strategy and the board, but it also takes the team figuring out how you're gonna execute on that.
Andy Taylor:Yeah, I was gonna build on Neil's comments. I mean, I've I've mentioned this before, a company that's today 186 years old, but um 180 years old. There's there was something unique about the the dynamics of the board that we had at the time, the leadership team that we had at the time, um, that had that um combined view to say, okay, the question we asked at the beginning of this was, you know, how do we make sure that this company is around for another 180 years? And I think that's a unique question that um I think comes rooted in our mutuality. And Neil talked about our our passion and care for the company. I mean, when you work there, um you truly sort of fall in love with the organization, the impact we've had in the communities that we live in. So there was a sense of duty, I think, that we as a joint leadership team and board felt to usher this organization into the future and protect that heritage and history that we've had. But that's not always the case in every organization. So I think we're very fortunate to have the right mix of leaders at the at that time.
Ian McLean:So let's let's get to that. Uh earlier this year, uh, you know, Gore announced uh uh Gore Mutual and Beneva, which is another major Canadian uh mutual insurance company based out of Quebec, uh proposed to join forces. And so talk a little bit, Neil, about about the uh why this is such an important step. Because the mergers happen all the time, but this one is uh I think it's unique in some respects. Tell the story of why this is an important step for mutuals in Canada. So not just for Gore, but for for Canada, because some have demutualized, there's there's there's global forces in insurance, whether it's casually proper in the whole insurance sector. Um, and how the partnership between Benova and Gore will benefit customers, but also the local community. Because that was that's uh I would logically be a fear that the community would have. And I think we're we're seeing lots of evidence that it's going to pay off for Waterloo Region, but also for Ontario and for Gore as a as a brand beyond beyond the borders here.
Neil Parkinson:Yeah, and you know, it is quite normal uh for not just for mutual companies, but certainly that's been a common feature when mutual companies looked at merging with other mutuals or doing anything else. If you're concerned about are we losing our identity, our local presence, our name change could be sensitive. Uh, but increasingly mutuals that have merged have done things uh that uh maybe if they have a name change, well, they're probably adopting a name that is more about what kind of company they are, who they are, as opposed to where. And uh, you know, we've become uh over time, over those 180 years initially, it was all pretty local. Yeah. Uh and uh now only about eight or nine percent of our policyholders and members are within, you know, short driving distance of our head office. So obviously we have a little broader scope, uh, not just in Ontario, but across the country. Um so uh I I would yield to no one with 53 years and having uh sort of an emotional stake in the company and everything else. Um, but you we we do think it's the the the right thing, and we'll talk a little bit about why. But I should also say that you know today is kind of important because yesterday was a day in which the last uh legislative uh change was was crossed. So it's not just intention to merge, we are merging on January 1st. That's that's good news to me. Yeah, so all the legislation is. You're the first to hear this. So why is it important? Well, for mutuals, um, we really think very strongly when you look at both Beneva and Gore, we're mutuals, we're committed to mutuality. Um, could you convert to a stock company, particularly in your bigger? Maybe, but we don't have the intention of doing that, neither does Beneva. And um we think that the mutual model offers a lot to our policyholders, both the ones we have today and our future policyholders, the ones we're going to sell to or bring in to the full in the future. Um, the result of this merger is we formed the largest mutual in Canada. Um, pretty good, big, hefty balance sheet that makes us a powerful competitor and uh allows us to bring a mutual option across Canada. Right now we're a little concentrated, us mostly uh in Ontario and British Columbia, a little bit here and there, uh Beneve, principally in Quebec, and a little bit in New Brunswick. Um this allows uh the organization, you know, will be the spring pad for uh our spring board, I think, for uh taking the whole organization across like Ontario, Atlantic, and the West. Um, and uh I think providing that mutual option to people is kind of an important one. And honestly, it's never been a better time to be a very Canadian company. Absolutely.
Ian McLean:If we go down that rabbit hole, we won't tell the rest of the story.
Neil Parkinson:But for current and future policyholders, there's a you know, the efficiency arguments of bringing up putting the organizations together allows us to be a lot more efficient on cost and service, provide a range of products uh that maybe we don't all do right now. And importantly, diversification. I already touched on you know the fire, flood, and earthquake issue. You can be really unlucky if you're too geographically focused. And when you're more diversified, you can cope. It's a lot, it's a it's a lot better safety and security for our policyholders. From our community's perspective, this is a great opportunity for us, particularly with this particular merger partner, to really secure our uh presence in the local community in Waterloo Region, although the office is in Cambridgeshire, but you know, we draw employees from everywhere in the region. And um that secures not only our current employment, but a lot of really great opportunities for employment and employment growth into the future.
Ian McLean:Andy, uh one of the things, it's just building on that, I mean, what's the difference for I mean as you're selling through your broker network, et cetera, of the the the mutual model versus the the the more you know um stock-based or commercial commercial, commercial a different commercial option that you'd see with other with other uh carriers?
Andy Taylor:It's a great question. So in and a couple of building on maybe on Neil's comments, um, if you look at the industry overall today, um most of the largest competitors are not mutuals. So there's only um a few mutuals in the industry that that have scale. And now with Ben About, uh we become the largest in the industry. But brokers' primary um focus is to have choice for the customers. So they're looking to have a diverse panel of um insurance companies. So when a customer comes in, they can get them the best coverage, the best price. Um so um so choice and diversification of the panel is important. Um, having mutuals in there and why why brokers and customers love mutuals is because of the stability of the mutual market. So we are there um, you know, quite literally for 186 years, right? We we have been in the market and we'll we'll stay in the market. Mutuals can't be acquired because there's no shares. So there's a stability that comes with that. There is a lot of consolidation. One of the key drivers for our um merger is consolidation of our competitors. And when other competitors um consolidate, there's fewer markets for the brokers to actually sell products to. So a healthy market for the Canadian insurance company uh industry will be one that's diverse, but has strong mutuals as part of that panel, and that will give stability to the brokers and to customers in Canada.
Ian McLean:So with the pro the proposed merger, um, I mean, one of the things, and we talked about this when you this was first an idea when you I don't know, yeah over a year, two years ago?
Andy Taylor:Uh this has been two years in the making. Two years, yeah. Sort of this merger, five years the whole strategy.
Ian McLean:But yeah. But one of the things that that you talked about, and I think has been going around is is how does Gore maintain the the the you know the culture and the heritage of I mean you talk about we were talking about the the your gorgeous building in the in in Cambridge. You know, it is a it is it is historic. The company's historic, the building's historic. Um how do you maintain that that culture and heritage of what gore was when you are merging with another company? Now, great, great fit, but there'll be still two different companies coming together.
Andy Taylor:Yeah, yeah, great question. Um I think first and foremost, that was a like a principal um objective, you know, going into this when when we set out with the board to say we have a lot of options on the table. You know, the company was growing, it was profitable. So we were we were actually doing this from a position of strength so that we would have options and we weren't being forced into a transaction. Um, we knew that if you're merging with a larger player, it's even harder to do the things that you just talked about. You know, how do you preserve your heritage when you're merging into something large? Um, and so I think it started with the values alignment. So it really is. I mean, you think of merging mutuals, it's two people kind of it's like getting married, right? Nobody's buying anyone, has to be in the best interest of both companies. As Neil said, both members that some members have to vote on it, um, the employees have to support it. Um, so we had to figure out you know, how do you actually find a solution that meets that criteria? And a big part of it was how do we maintain our sense of identity, our heritage, our history? Um, so a couple of ways we've done that is there's a shared vision around the future of mutuality, being a high performing mutual, being the top mutual in the industry. I think that's the first piece. But the second one was there was a really Really high level of respect from Banaba and our partners for our heritage and history, and they understood and appreciated why it was important to us. They actually spent a lot of time with us coming to Cambridge, seeing our office, seeing the history and really understanding why we would want to preserve that. And that wasn't the case with all the players that we that we talked to, right? Not everybody had that same sense of values. And then from there, we structured a very unique um merger where we will essentially be a subsidiary of the larger group. So by doing that, we're gonna merge Unica, which is one of their existing subsidiaries in Ontario, into Gore, create a billion-dollar subsidiary outside of Quebec that, as Neil said, will be the platform for growth outside of Quebec. But the subsidiary itself and having a separate board of directors that Neil will continue to chair, and we'll have a majority of our board will be um uh represented on that board, really gives us a separate and distinct identity. So that was an important part. And then second, um, we actually have embraced the concept of taking on the ban of a brand nationally for all the reasons that it's exciting, it's a new brand. It actually stands for people looking up for people, so it's very much aligned with what the core is all about. And we see it it's powerful to have a national brand and be part of a national financial services group to compete head to head against the multi-billion dollar organizations we're competing against. But you can do that while preserving your heritage and respecting it. And so some of the ways we're doing that, um, you know, you referenced our beautiful building in Cambridge. That's actually been designated a heritage building. Um, so that building will be there forever. We're actually um rebranding the we call it the campus because it feels like a campus. And so it'll be it'll be the Gore campus. We have archives in the building and tons of history. Um, so we'll be celebrating that, um, making it available and for our employees and others. And then we're also looking at um also ways through our foundation. So, how can we actually use the foundation to continue to have an impact in the local community and celebrate our heritage? The other one's interesting is culture. So we are we're working with our employees and actually doing surveys with our employees to say, you know, what is it about Gore that you love? Like what is it that's great about this company? And we're also asking Unica and Benova, and we're gonna create you know what we think of as the culture absolutely that has the best of both. So it will be different, but hopefully we can bring along a lot of what's made this company so amazing in the past.
Neil Parkinson:And you know, there's a bit of a proof point there because it would be natural to be skeptical that, oh, of course, it's the you know, it's romance stage, you haven't got married yet, you know. So uh the uh uh the the proof points are is when we look at how Beneva itself arose, because it's only five years ago that they created that company out of the merger of uh two companies like Capital and SSQ. And so we could look back and say, well, how did they behave? Was there kind of a red-in-tooth and nail type of uh you know, conventional kind of a corporate merger or where there are winners and losers? And no, they were very reluctant. It wasn't the tech thing about move fast and break things. It was, I don't want to break things, I don't want to, you know, hurt anybody's culture, uh, continue to recognize and respect those things. So we have a lot of confidence that that's in fact how things will go beginning Jan 1.
Ian McLean:So in 2020, I guess around 2020, uh, the next horizon vision. So that was Gore saying what's the start of this vision that you talked about? What been on a journey to become, and you've talked about this little purpose-driven, digitally led national insurer. And I would say the insurance industry and digital have not always been used in the in the in the same sentence very often, because it is a very traditional business. But what's most excited you, Neil, about about the journey that you're on with the merger, but also the the this next horizon journey, because it is it is a new way of doing, and not fully, but there's a large large parts of this. There are new ways of doing business in the insurance uh field and and and with this merger um in particular.
Neil Parkinson:Well, you know, particularly when I think back, you know, the five decades I talked about earlier. I mean, the change in the company uh over that period has been nothing short of breathtaking. But even on the last, you know, five to ten years, that's been the case. Uh part of us technology. I mean, it's really, you know, there's the cool factor of building a new technology stack to sound like I know more about technology than maybe I do. But uh, you know, that's been very dramatic and very and very impressive, and the kind of thing you read in my Harvard Business Review magazines and stuff like that. Um, but I think that one thing that was really um uh great watching the transformation efforts uh take uh form and take root in the company over the past few years. The recognition is not just about things you plug into the wall, it's about the people. And so through that period, um, we've seen a real upwards uh movement of our skill set inside the company, uh hiring best in class people. There are any a lot of people from very large organizations are more than willing to uh take a look at uh, you know, gore as an employment opportunity and have done so. And a lot of people are saying, gee, you know, having experience at Gore on my resume is not a bad thing, even if I don't stay there forever. So that's been really good. I think that the um capability level and the degree of engagement and excitement in the employee base is the thing that's really excited me. Um another, and again, I talk about proof points now and then. If you look at how the company has changed, um one of the threats we recognized over the past few years was if you look at distribution, most of our distributors were what you call strip mall or local or family-owned brokerages, and not to knock them, it's just that um we were a little worried that our distribution system was getting bought up by consolidators and turned into larger brokerage uh chains. Would we have anybody left to sell our policies? So we actually worked really hard at transforming our distribution to include the national level distribution organizations who are quite demanding. And uh, and that's fine, they should be. I think it's helped drive a lot of the progress we've made. But uh, I was surprised uh in retrospect, if you'd asked me five or six years ago, would we be where we are in terms of our ability to serve some of these large national brand distribution? I said, gee, you know that that's that's pretty ambitious. Don't think we can do it. We've certainly done that as well as maintaining our our uh involvement with the smaller local uh brokers. Um so those those have been some of the big things for me.
Ian McLean:So I just sticking with the next uh horizon journey uh starting in 2020, Andy. Um how has it shaped Gore's position in the marketplace? I mean, you're you're you and the the the admin or the administration team and the senior management team have to deal with the realities of how does the strategy actually coming off the page. Um how has it shaped the Gore's position in the marketplace? And what do you see is the what what has this produced and by way of both opportunities and challenges that that you'll that that you'll be um uh able to experience in the in the years ahead?
Andy Taylor:Yeah, great question. Um if I I'll probably build a bit on Neil's comments, but if we go back to 2020, um two or three key trends in the industry really led to next rise. And the biggest one being that consolidation of our broker partners. So that was happening. Our competitors were consolidating. Um we were unique because we're a mid-sized player competing against the largest in the industry. And then climate change would be the third one. So, you know, we we we see it in our everyday lives, but we'd seen record catastrophes across Canada consecutively for every year for Gore, you know, 186-year-old um company. We were seeing record losses ourselves each year. And as Neil mentioned, as a regional player, we were concentrated in certain areas, so we were not diversified, and so we would see more volatility in our results. So those were kind of the drivers to say, okay, ultimately, what the vision for next horizon is we need to get to a point where we have scale, diversification, and access to capital to really thrive in what we think is the future of P and C insurance in Canada and nationally. And it's gonna be harder and harder for those smaller regional players to actually compete in this landscape. So today, you know, fast forward kind of five years, you know, I couldn't be prouder, and I think we couldn't be prouder of the work that we've done as an organization to build a foundation for that. So um, that first transformation, which we we did during the pandemic 2020, 2020, 23. Um, we have put industry leading technology in place. Um, the entire organization is now on the most modern cloud-based platform in the industry. Uh, and that really enables all the work we're going to be doing in data and analytics and AI. Our operating models are scalable today. So at the beginning of this, very manual. Um, today we have straight-through processing direct connectivity to our broker partners. So as we merge with Banova, we can scale the business um across the country. And then similar to Neil, most um exciting has been the talent uh elevation in the organization. We've quite literally doubled the size of the workforce access to talent all across the industry. So I would say that's kind of foundational. So if those three trends that I talked about, not only have they um continued through the five-year period, but we would argue they've accelerated. Back to that earlier comment that it's it's really important that we did the work that we've done to get us to this point. I think the opportunities, you know, the challenges that those are going to continue. So consolidation, climate change, um, these are real um issues for the industry. The opportunity is we now feel we're positioned to actually um really, really perform well in that environment, and particularly as part of Beneva. So if we think if we've done that work ourselves, combining with Beneva, now we get to be an $8 billion organization. Within that, there's a $3 billion PC business. Um, so that makes us a top 10 um PC company in the industry, uh, and part of a diversified financial services group that has PC life and group insurance, which is another factor that we really loved about um the Benova group, because as one area of the business might be under stress, the other areas are contributing. So we feel you know, sort of optimistic. I think the reality is it's gonna be a very tough environment to be in the PC insurance industry. Uh, but the work we've done to build that foundation, get the diversification, have access to capital really bodes well for us in the future as we kind of.
Ian McLean:I think it's a metaphor for lots of industries in Canada. I mean, productivity, efficiency, investing in technology, AI have all got to be at the root of for many companies where on the global stage where we're not big, so we better be pound for pound um making those investments. And it sounds like you have the Behind the Business Podcast is made possible through the support of our title sponsor, Gore Mutual. Proudly Canadian, Gore Mutual has stayed true to one purpose for more than 185 years: insurance that does good. It's the reason they exist. They believe that when we focus on being good, doing good, and spreading good, we all thrive together. We're grateful for their continued commitment to our local communities and the positive impact they make every day. For more information, visit gormutual.ca. Which brings us back to insurance is still a very, very highly regulated, it's you know, uh regulators in in in Ottawa and and and provinces for that matter. So there's lots of lots of uh regulation. But you have made some bold moves in in digital transformation and customer experience. And and I mean I I think during the pandemic, some of the things that came up is like you still needed to get your actual, you know, pink slip for car insurance, like things like that that became more problematic when we could not be together. So talk a little bit about some of those digital transformation of customers. Like how would people experience what you've done in Gore to make their life easier, make the customer experience simpler and more easy? Because I think that's that's one thing in banking, in insurance, that everyone is and they're very traditional industries, everyone needs them and they want them to be as seamless as possible. 100%.
Andy Taylor:And I think you mentioned it earlier, and I think it's a fair challenge to say the insurance industry hasn't always been seen as as catching up to some of the other industries. But it's it's been amazing. I do think if you look at a sort of a uh change curve, and and Neil mentioned this tremendous change over the last 20 years, but like exponential change in the last five. And I think the next five will even be more um impressive in that. So I think you know, when we think about regulation, we are a regulated financial services industry. I think that regulation is important. We need to have guardrails. Um, it's been one of the challenges for smaller organizations. How do we how do we actually balance that going forward? But I think I think you're right, like innovation is really starting to take effect. So we all know that you know, in all your other areas, you're uh you're interacting with your phone. So one of the challenges we had is if we sell our products through independent insurance brokers, um, or you could buy direct to consumer. So direct-to-consumer um experience is is typically more digital, has other challenges. Probably the biggest game changer, I think, in the coming years that is really coming on now, is the the brokers and carriers' ability to provide that, as you say, digital experience, even on that side. So I mentioned earlier we're on the most modern cloud-based platform in the industry. There's been a um conformity. So the industry overall is on one platform that's connected to those brokers, which then allows the brokers to provide a faster, more seamless um experience for customers. So even today, you know, I buy my insurance through a broker. Um, all of my documents come through my phone, my pink slip. It's a digital experience. That capability wasn't there three, four years ago. So that's a that's really happening quickly. And then I think the game changer going forward is AI, not only in obviously in every industry we're trying to explore the specific use cases. One of the challenges in insurance is there's tons of unstructured data. So you have structured data, it's quite easy to automate something. Unstructured data is difficult. We're getting submissions and applications from customers all across the country. So there's a huge opportunity, I think, again, to use AI to really improve customer and broker experience. But I would say that um the challenge is fair. Like if if many other industries are here, we've we're catching up. But there's an ability now, I think, for the insurance industry to really be at that point.
Ian McLean:Well, and I think one of the uh uh advantages of of having Gore stay here is with Communitech and with the tech sector here. Uh there's I'm part of a group, the Waterdo Region AI Coalition, very exciting uh title. But really, what it is is saying every sector is touched by AI, and how can we do pilots to take various sectors, whether it's insurance or banking or services or retail and and and harvest the productivity and the things that AI can provide for, especially small and medium-sized business where that can make a difference. So there's there's lots of there's lots of interest to particularly with our with the advantage of having communa tech in that tech space here. Listen, let's let's go back to Waterloo Region a little bit, Neil. Um Gore has supported initiatives and has always been a community leader on on things like climate. And there's a there's a business reason why climate change and the and the weather events, et cetera. Um Equity Lab and the local hospital. I mean, you know, maybe talk a little bit about those partnerships or those investments that you make in the community and how it influences the strategy as a company. I mean, you've got employees here, um, but but showing leadership where you're where you're based and and where your employees live their life is uh is it keeps you connected with community. But talk about maybe you know those those those those specific things that you're investing in um you know locally.
Neil Parkinson:Well, when if you think back to that discussion of transformation over the last five years, uh that uh current we've heard some really impressive things that are very businessy oriented, let's say, but through that period too, we made a significant investment in time and effort, a little intellectual capital in uh the what we would call a purpose strategy. And we've got a very senior person we recruited from one of the other major financial institutions to lead our purpose initiatives, and so we've done some pretty cool things. If you look at our um uh, you know, basically our impact report that we do separate from our business annual report, there's one that talks about the things we do in the communities, including climate, and uh give you pretty good um uh, you know, it's in its own way as important and done as the same sort of standard as our annual report. Uh I think that looking at purpose as influence strategy, partly in the sense that it kind of reminds us that we're that we work for all our stakeholders. Uh we certainly work for our members and policy holders, but in addition, we work for our employees, we work for our communities, and they're kind of important. And I won't say one's more or less important than another, but it's certainly pretty important to us. Uh, there are you mentioned a couple examples like hospitals and you know the climate lab. Um some of that is more local, and some of it's a little less local, has broader application across the country. Uh, one thing we recognize, uh and anybody who gets asked for money recognizes there are lots of opportunities to do a lot of worthy things out there, lots of needs. And uh what we recognized, I think, is we needed to do a few of them well. Choosing them is kind of important, and we wanted them to kind of intersect with what we do from a business perspective. And importantly, that included uh the engagement of our employees. One, you know, it's always fun to get input from your employees and right through the organization, because if you just ask the old geezers like me on a board, you don't get any smarter than they are. And you know, if the uh it's improved uh, I think our employees' view of whether we mean what we say on purpose, uh, and also gives them an opportunity to express themselves and how the the how the business operates. I think that's been really important. I think it's been a contributing factor in the high engagement scores we have with our employee workforce. And they get uh a chance to you know talk to us about what we ought to be doing and decide what we're doing and making donations and what the foundation does. And I think it's also extended to our distributors, our brokers also have some participation in this. So those have all been important from a strategic fulfillment perspective for us. Um, one other thing I would say just about climate, because people would might say, well, is isn't there self-interest paramount in that? Because if you're addressing climate, one of the things that causes claims or maybe increasing claims exposures are climate-related things like windstorm and floods and everything. And that's true, but uh the interesting thing as we analyze this a little bit more and thought about what we could do is that uh is the intersection of climate risks and poverty. And so a lot of what we're doing that address poverty-related concerns really stem from exposure to climate risks. Um measurability and otherwise. So it's um uh you know there's a lot of things where I'm not sure we fully appreciate all of the uh you know the the outcomes that will come from this but it's made us a lot more sensitive I think to how we participate in and contribute to our communities.
Ian McLean:So and and keep that on that thread Andy culture we've talked about the culture of of of Gore it's central to Gore's identity in terms of who you have been as a company. How do you encourage employees? And I think this builds on this you know you you're talking about spread the good or spread good in the ethos in in the in the in their daily work but it's also what the board's doing what the foundation's doing what the senior management and how you partner with other organizations and whether it's the hospitals whether it's chambers whether it's other not-for-profits you're investing in the community in a variety of ways um but that spread good ethos right like is that unique to the mutual sector at insurance or is that just is that a un is that a a specific thing that Gore has ingrained in it?
Neil Parkinson:By the way I think maybe people have been I won't say ripping us off but you start seeing look look at the local Y and they talk about here for good.
Ian McLean:Yeah.
Neil Parkinson:Well they've been taking here and taking the spread and you know I'm and that's not knock on what they're doing at all I'm a member and so on. But you know the whole thing about good and uh you know it has echoes.
Andy Taylor:Yeah yeah it's been it's been fun to watch and I think you know like going back it's it's a it's this very strategic that's interesting because we um at the beginning in X-Rise and we were saying well what is our differentiating value proposition? Like we're a we're a 180 year old mutual company but we're a generalist insurance company. So it was kind of fascinating because when you do strategy you'd say well if you're a niche player then you could be small and niche. If you're a generalist you should be big and have scale which is what we're where we're going to now but one thing that jumped out at us we said well actually we're we're literally 180 years old. We're the first peer-to-peer insurance company a true mutual uh created by people who came together to look out for one another so that there's literally in our DNA and at the time we were all seeing that the world is falling apart around us and our employees and people wanted to work with companies that were trying to make a positive impact in the world and not just shareholder driven companies. So that was an impetus for insurance that does good and we said you know if we could modernize so your to your question I do believe it's it's powerful for mutuals because what we said if we could modernize the value proposition of a mutual most people don't understand what a mutual or cooperative or credit union really is. So we said well the purpose is really like we don't have shareholders so at the end of the day the work we do the money that we make is invested back into our people back into the communities and we can make a positive impact but if you could combine that with being a high performing business now you actually have a unique value proposition and you can compete head to head against the big public companies. So then insurance that does good has three pillars be good, do good, spread good and that has really taken off I mean people just resonate with it and love it. Be good is really sort of how you show up every day. Do good is the work that we're doing with our partners to make the world better and then spread good is the work that we're you know how we're spreading good in the communities that we live in and work in. So for the employees I think just building on that just a couple of things we you know we have um reinforcing Neil's comments we've done community day specifically now for the last several years here and across all the communities not only here in in Kitchener Waterloo but we have offices in Toronto and Vancouver so across the country where we had over 500 employees out in the community working with over 40 organizations giving back every every um every year. And the one thing I would find in this whole narrative of spreading good and being a modern mutual there's just a sense of pride that our employees have. And what I found is it's not the big initiative so it's not necessarily if we give millions of dollars to to the um just to a large financial or sorry to a large hospital or something like that. It's a smaller initiative. So we we have a matching program for our employees where they can choose you know some an initiative or a a cause that they're truly passionate about could be a few thousand dollars and then we match that um but that community level giving is really important and it's another area where we know there's really a high alignment with Nineveh and the way that they actually think about communities and so our view is combined we can we have a bigger impact going forward in the same I think Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills is stealing your thing too he always says be good, do good, go build so take him take a part of your thing.
Ian McLean:We don't want to get sidetracked on NFL playoffs here. Listen just as we wrap up I I'll ask a variety of the same question two different ways. We'll start with you Neil if you look ahead now and say you're on the board, you're chairing the board you've gone through this process what does success look like for Gore in sort of in you know five years or five plus years is the so five to ten years is a window where you can say here's what we plan to do um here's where we are what will for you constitute success um for growth in this community in Waterloo region but also the the other communities that you're going to be you know growing into like how will you how will you measure success from the board perspective?
Neil Parkinson:Well I think that you know we've we've got a lot of work to do with that period to you know properly integrate ourselves and create a cohesive national organization and uh that's harder to measure but I would say that if we're a top 10 property casualty company right off the get-go as a result of this merger we will continue to build on that and grow um nationally we will probably go up the league table a little bit uh over that time and I think that that would be measured success we don't want to get there and stand still and you know have other people grow faster than us we really have an ambition to do that and that will be um kind of replicated or mirrored in our employment uh we're not only securing uh really good jobs in this area we'll be building on that we'll see more employment you know over the last five years as Andy said we've doubled our workforce we've doubled our revenue we know we can do it uh and uh can can continue to do that in the days ahead um so so what we've been doing is already a success this is something that will fuel you know further success going forward and and so Andy I mean it's a version of the same I mean you know the proposed proposed mergers are with Beneve and the impact on the region in terms of jobs and local opportunities but that also translates in that what you are going to be measured on is how are you doing in other marketplaces and growing beyond the 8 or 10 percent that is here you know in other parts of of English Canada and then Beneva obviously in in Quebec and New Brunswick and the and the francophone areas of the country.
Ian McLean:What does success look like for you from on the operation side for you and your staff?
Andy Taylor:Yeah it's a great question I think having yesterday's formal approval is very exciting for us. I mean we have gone through a process of getting um you know Neil and I were fortunate to attend the Senate uh you know uh committees for approval the uh the parliament approval you enjoyed that yeah you know uh we we we make fun of these guys and say geez they look like a bunch of kids on TV but honestly I was I think we were both very impressed with the quality of the people we worked with that's good yeah yeah it was and then this week was the Quebec National Assembly so now with that approval we can merge in January and all of our energy goes to integration. So I mentioned earlier there's uh there's a merger kind of within a merger so Unica is a subsidiary of Beneva today in Ontario and Unica is going to merge into Cora. So next year that's the integration the nearter focus so because we have the most modern technology platform Unica will be coming onto our platforms and we'll be spending next year bringing those businesses together. So so today we're as I said located in Cambridge Toronto and Vancouver Unica's in Mississauga but those employees will be integrating into Gore and I think again our our employment will be increasing. The real focus is get that integration done as quickly as possible next year with maintaining great service to our brokers and customers meeting our business plan all the things we have to do every year.
Ian McLean:And then as we say if we can get there next year um on that integration program then in 2027 we effectively become Ben of a and we'll take on the brand and and talk about work on some we can keep going all afternoon because I geek out on insurance because my old my old boss Glenn Wright had it in pension benefits and was involved and I worked at WSIB so there's lots of insurance connections and and Neil and I uh share some history at WSIB but but we do have to wrap this up so I this is this podcast is always about the business stories the local business stories but it's also about leadership and how people come to their you know their their philosophies or or how they've come to leadership and so I'm gonna I always have these rapid fire questions I'm gonna ask you the short answers uh because especially since there's two of you answering these but I'll I'll go back and forth. So Neil what would you tell your younger self if you could go back I can't believe it's 50 years, but you claim it's 50 years. What would you go back and tell your younger self somewhere along the journey?
Neil Parkinson:Well you know honestly um I think if I was talking to my younger self I'd say I'd tell you some things but I don't want to spoil a surprise. Enjoy the run.
Andy Taylor:Enjoy the right I think I'd say relax. I think most of us think each crisis is kind of the end of the world and we're facing the and you know two days later life goes on and you power through it.
Ian McLean:So I think just in all things particularly I'll start with you. Who or what inspires you most as you in you know and it doesn't have to be just business but who or what sort of drives you or inspires you?
Andy Taylor:Yeah I think um probably a good underdog story. So I think that's something that's been our narrative as well trying to compete against the largest in the industry. But anyone who's overcome adversity a comeback story to me that's very inspiring.
Neil Parkinson:Neil well I I'll just point to I would say my parents' generation my parents my aunts and uncles and so on but I'll give you a gore example in that mix there was a guy on our board of directors by the name of Bill McCormick. I went to his funeral just a few years ago uh Bill was on a board of gore for a while he had a local business that family business he ran for years and Bill commanded the tank platoon that made the deepest penetration of any Allied unit on June 6th on D-Day. D-Day and about three days later he's in his tank and a German anti-tank show goes through the turret and he loses a leg. All the time I knew him he kind of leapt around but he never complained about it. He was a great great guy and uh uh that's a really good example of some of the people I've had the privilege of working with over the years.
Ian McLean:So that's it's a that's a great one. If you weren't in your current career that you're doing I'll I'll start Neil here what do you think you'd be doing instead like you've had a long career in finance and and audited et cetera but if you weren't doing that what would you what do you think you'd do well you know it's funny at this point because I'm technically retired although my my wife puts air quotes up every time I say I'm retired.
Neil Parkinson:I I'd like to say it was something extravagant like being a mountain guide or a ski patroller or something like that. But I don't know what I would have done any differently now.
Ian McLean:Well you seem to have enjoyed it if you stayed in the industry for 50 years there's probably not much else you want to do. Andy what about you?
Andy Taylor:Well now with our um office in Toronto I find myself driving into Toronto a lot more than I used to and with the traffic um I literally park at the airport and take the up express train. So I I've been kidding with Aaron lately that I think my next career is uh airport limo driver just go I'm getting so official you have kids so you can also Uber driver or an airport limo driver I'm very experienced at it I'm getting very good at it. Okay uh are you Greek fishermen can are you are you reading a book or listening to a podcast? What do you do? There is a book it's actually um it's called The Four Seasons of Being a CEO. It's quite interesting and it takes you through like you know spring, summer, fall and winter. Sometimes it always feels like it's winter. But it is quite fascinating the journey that you go through and now that I've sort of finished five years in this role and we're doing the merger it's um it's really an interesting one.
Neil Parkinson:What about you? Well I just got Margaret Atwood's autobiography and thumbed through it a little bit and certainly recommend that so far but there's a suggestion for you on podcast because you were talking about being a bit of a techno geek. There's a guy called Azim Azhar has a podcast called Exponential view. He's out of London but it's a Harvard Business review related one he does a lot of things but great guess about technology issues.
Ian McLean:That'd be a good I need lots of help on that I say I I don't know much about it but I should know more about it. But okay uh just as we wrap up uh what's what's your favorite business that uh or or local place that here in Waterdoo region.
Neil Parkinson:Oh for me every Saturday morning I go to a uh little place across from the old city hall and old fire hall in Cambridge called Disco Coffee. And I'll see if this gets me a free coffee but uh they have really good coffee and I can get financial times there so that's good.
Andy Taylor:Well similarly I mean our um neighborhood I I find myself buying very expensive olives at Vincenzo on the weekend so I think that's probably near and dear to to my uh it's a it's a great place and it's and it's close to where because we're neighbors in the neighborhood.
Ian McLean:Okay and just as we wrap up uh Andy where can people listeners uh those that are look uh watching the pod or listening to the podcast connect with either Gore or you if they want to follow up on on some of the things because there's lots of we we touched on a lot of things and there's a lot more detail to go through.
Andy Taylor:Well first appreciate you giving us the the opportunity to tell the story today and um you know as we go forward so we we definitely have a our website that we'll be updating. Social media is a big area for people to watch and then you know what's even more interesting for us is if we take on the Benova brand and we have a national presence I think you'll see a lot more of Gore and Benova you know in the marketplace than you would have seen in the past.
Ian McLean:Trevor Burrus Well the platform's already here and I know Greg at the Cambridge Chamber we talk often about the importance of of Gore and uh and and as a as a as a business but also uh uh we're we're delighted to to see the progress that you're making so pr really appreciate uh you both making and I think as we record this we're in one of the three snowstorms we've already had in December so thank you for making uh the trip down here really appreciate you both spending some time with us today. Okay thank you yeah appreciate it thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the business proudly presented by Gore Mutual insurance that does good new episodes drop every Thursday so be sure to tune in next week you can also visit greater kwchamber com to catch up on past episodes anytime. We'll see you next time as we continue to go behind the business.
