Behind the Business

Behind City Hall: Lessons in Leadership and Resilience with Dorothy McCabe

• Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce • Season 3 • Episode 18

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Dorothy McCabe, elected Mayor of Waterloo in 2022, brings decades of municipal experience and community-focused leadership to City Hall. In this episode we go behind the business of running a city — from the early career moments that shaped her, to the hands-on decisions that produce visible outcomes for residents. Dorothy discusses housing and growth, partnerships with post-secondary institutions and business, how leaders learn from setbacks, and the practical habits that keep her grounded. 

Whether you run a small business, lead a team, or simply care about the future of Waterloo Region, you’ll find practical lessons and honest stories in this conversation.

Let’s go “Behind the Business” with Mayor Dorothy McCabe.

Get a look Behind the Business in Waterloo Region with Ian McLean, President & CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce.

Ian McLean:

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business presented by Gore Mutual. I'm your host, Ian McLean, President and CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterdoo Chamber of Commerce. This podcast is recorded on the traditional territory of the neutral Anishinabe and Hoden Ashone peoples. Each week I sit down for candid conversations where we go beyond the boardroom and behind the business to uncover the real stories of Waterloo Region's business community. Today on Behind the Business, we sit down with Dorothy McCabe, the Mayor of Waterloo. Dorothy arrived in elected office after a long career in municipal leadership, advisory roles, and partnerships with local post-secondary institutions. She's known for a hands-on, community-first approach, and for rolling up her sleeves to turn plans into real results. In this conversation, we'll hear how she navigates tough calls, works with business and education partners, and keeps the day-to-day running smoothly for residents. Expect practical leadership lessons and stories you won't read in a press release. Join us as we go behind the business with Mayor Dorothy McCabe. Well, we're excited to have you here today. Dorothy, thanks so much for making time in your busy schedule.

Dorothy McGabe:

Absolutely. Happy to be here.

Ian McLean:

I know a busy time of year for everybody. You've got lots on the go at the city and at the region. So uh but I wanted to kind of dig into bit as we get started. You've spent more than um two decades in municipal leadership, either um elected, uh, you know, at the staff level, you've been worked in higher education before being elected mayor. What what uh drew you into public service and inspired you to move from sort of the staff or the advisory roles into elected office?

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, well, I mean, I'll go right back to my roots uh and say my parents. My parents were always, you know, obviously they're a big influence on my life, but they were very, very involved in in our local community, farming community where I grew up. But then, um, a little shout out to the chamber uh network. Um, years ago, I was working for a chamber in North York. Oh. Yeah, and um I knew that. Yeah, yeah. And I started meeting, part of my role was, you know, was to was policy development in that. And and uh and so I was meeting with a lot of the elected officials, provincial, federal, and municipal, and I started to think, oh, this is really interesting. I like this. Um and then, you know, and then I moved back to the region and to Waterloo, and uh, you know, and I continued to follow along with it, and I got a j I volunteered on a campaign and started working with John Malloy, and you know, just paying attention to municipal and federal and provincial politics, and I started to think, provincial particularly, um, I wasn't really happy with some of the decisions being made at the municipal level by some of the, you know, some previously elected people. And I thought, you know what? I want to go from being an advisor to a decider. And so I threw my hat in the ring three years ago.

Ian McLean:

And you never know, sometimes the dog catches the bus, right? And you're like, oh yeah, and it's it's it's it's a whole different thing. I mean, you know, I I was elected for a period of time, and and getting uh making that decision is not it, it's uh it's not easy and and it's tough work once you get there.

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, and I was originally interested at the regional level. It's nothing again, like it wasn't a city of Waterloo thing. It was a couple of people at the region that I just thought I would make different decisions than what they're making. And so my folk, my campaign originally was focused on the region because Dave Jaworski said he was gonna do three terms, and then all of a sudden he wasn't. And then my campaign team were just like do both.

Ian McLean:

You can be mayor and the regional counselor.

Dorothy McGabe:

So here I am.

Ian McLean:

So you've worked on uh you know, along with in the community on a number of major regional initiatives. Um and I know we were on the same group that was early on with all day two way go. Um you know, some of the planning and the and the big things happening with the with post-secondary institutions. Um if you look back, what's the one project that challenged you the most in terms of getting something done? Because there because there are none of none of these things are happening easily.

Dorothy McGabe:

No.

Ian McLean:

And what keeps you motivated to pursuing those things when it can, I mean, you can get tired of having the same conversation over and over again before things get done. Because I think I think what people It's like having kids, again. Well, it certainly is. But I think what most people may not understand is not government is not designed for fast decision making. It it's meant to build consensus, and and that can be frustrating when you're either watching it or when you're in the middle of it.

Dorothy McGabe:

We know this is where we need to go, what's taking so long. But it is, you know, it's public money, it's public, it's public land often. It's you know, so you have to be really careful and mindful of that. But you know, it's it's gonna, it's my sort of penultimate project, I think, and the most challenging one is the is the GoTrain project, right? Because that was, I'm still excited about it. Like I know people are probably saying, how come it's not here yet? But it's a huge, massive like infrastructure project. And you know, in 2014, when uh the former premier win said they're gonna they're gonna do it, like they said it'd take 10 years, you know, then there's COVID in there and you know, on and on, right? But but we're getting close, we're getting closer every day, you know. And Mr. Sarkaria was great to have him here a couple of months ago. But uh, but you know, I what I really loved about and about that project at the time was that it was really collaborative. It was working with the chambers and the environmental groups and commuters and the post-secondary institutions and big businesses like Manu Life and TD, et cetera. And we all came around. And you when you can get people to a place where you say, yeah, we see this vision and we see the need, and we're all like it's a common, it's a common issue, right? Like that's you know, that's exciting, right?

Ian McLean:

When we started this, I would say it wasn't necessarily the community consensus that emerged over time. Well, it wasn't. I mean, there was a time when there would be you'd be hard-pressed to find the business community saying transit was a top priority. But it it it did become where everyone understood. The more we talked about it. Moving of goods, moving of people. Moving people mad. We needed to have this, otherwise we would we would not be able to throw up.

Dorothy McGabe:

We're clogging up the 401 with, you know, with in the freight that that can't move very freely. And the and the cost of the delay of moving people around when you're trying to get business executives in, you know, to our community, and it's like I'm not gonna let my CAO sit on the 401 maybe for four hours, right?

Ian McLean:

And I do think, you know, uh while we'd like to have that, you know, the end goal of having peak service, you know, 60-minute service, that will come. And it, but it it we've made big improvements and there's lots, lots more to come.

Dorothy McGabe:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Ian McLean:

Listen, you know, I think one of the things you you kind of your observations is that your style is hands-on and community first, that you're and you know, God bless. I don't know how you do these things, but uh, you're at I'm at a lot of events, but not anywhere close to what elected officials like yourself are. So um how do you balance and approach leading um, you know, ultimately council's strategic to a large extent of saying what's the direction, and then the staff kind of make that happen, but you're you're balancing the strategic with the the long-term work that the city needs, and some of that's very practical in nature. How do you balance those things?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, about I mean, about going to events and things, those are really good. I mean, they're fun and it's great to connect with people, but they're I've always found them really good um learning opportunities because people will just have a pull aside and say, like, hey, I like this or I don't like that, or what are you thinking about this? You know, so you have those conversations with people, or they just share what's how potential policy issues are landing. Um, so that's a good way to just help, you know, focus on the here and now. But it but you're right, the the balance is thinking about the needs of right now and and then also 10, 20, 30 years out. Um, but you know, we have a strategic plan that we do a lot of engagement, and and we we we did we started it three years ago, but we've done continual check-ins, I call them community conversations with um around the the strategic pillars. And so it's not a one and done, it's a living document. So so that helps like having continual conversations about our strategic plan and our priorities, that really just helps, you know, keep us focused on on the future. But you know, I read a lot. I mean, when lucky in Waterloo, in Waterloo Region, like I go to CG lectures and and they share some of their information, right? Like these are, you know, and I'm on AMO, and of course we have UW and Laurier, and there's always like academic reports you can read about things that are coming and and down the pipe, right? So I take advantage of those and you know try and stay plugged in that way. But it because it then it forces you to think about, you know, lift your head from like the here and now and think, yeah, what is coming down the pipe?

Ian McLean:

That that's not that's not easy to do because you because the crisis of the day always gets you thinking about today.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah.

Ian McLean:

And and yeah, I think you're right. Uh going to those community events, it kind of that's it's it's almost like a uh an early warning grading system because people aren't shy about telling you when you've done probably better at telling you when you haven't done things right, but but you you do hear that. Yeah. Listen, as a woman uh in in a high profile and traditionally male-dominated space, which is elected office, I think that's still still true. Probably less so in Waterloo region, less so in Waterloo region. Yeah, much more of a a track record when you think back to Marjorie Carroll and some of the mayors in Cambridge, and now we have regional challenges.

Dorothy McGabe:

Anna Hughes was elected in Waterloo in 1957.

Ian McLean:

So it's it's less so, but it still is a male-dominated space.

Dorothy McGabe:

Especially the mayor position.

Ian McLean:

Yeah. Um what are the have you faced some hurdles, or what would you say are the the the hurdles that you faced? And and what advice would you give to others? I mean, we're gonna come into election year, I guess it was the turn of the calendar. There'll be an election in 2026 in October?

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, it'll be October 20, 2026. 2026.

Ian McLean:

So uh if you're giving some advice, you know, from your vantage point to other women stepping into leadership roles, not necessarily elected, but leadership roles, what would that be?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, um, and you know, to go back to there are a lot of women elected in in Waterloo Region, and that's credit to uh Jane Mitchell and you know, Melissa Durrell and Karen Coviallo who keep that women's campaign school alive because they've done some really great things there. But you're right, it's still a very male-dominated. I mean, if you look at elected officials across Ontario, or if I look at the Ontario Big City Mayors, there's 29 of us of cities over a hundred thousand, and uh only six of us are women, right? So that's uh and the truth is um in you know, generally in municipal politics, it's it's difficult to unelect an incumbent, right? So I mean part of the part of it is some of the some of the men who are who have been sitting, you know, I'd say more than three terms, have to kind of take a look at themselves and say, you know, is is it time to move on, right? Like I remember Karen Coviallo said, you know, this isn't my seat, it's the community seat. And so, you know, there's that part of it as well. But yeah, I mean, I've I face, I've certainly face uh sometimes it's really overt and sometimes it's very subtle. Um, but it's it's definitely there. Just the, you know, sexism and things like that, and uh and some of the ways that you're talked to. But I would still say to women, do it, right? Like we need we need to get more voices in um people from diverse backgrounds, women or men, we need to get more diverse voices around the table. It changes the conversation, it changes sometimes the priorities, but it also changes how we think and and and come to decisions. Um, and I think that's really a good thing. So it's it is it is challenging, but do it.

Ian McLean:

As a father of two daughters, I and my mother was a feminist, and we we have much more example. I encourage them to get involved because it does change. The style does change. It's uh and and uh and that's that's that's a good thing.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, oh it is. And Waterloo's got uh eight elected positions at our city council. Six of us are women, and uh yeah, and it's it's a very collaborative. We don't agree all the time. We have some we have some tough conversations. Yeah, yeah. But we it's it's uh, you know, we're we're not hitting the headlines with like, you know, a bunch of division and things like that, like some other councils.

Ian McLean:

That would be a unique because that's just not my experience for uh uh for seven years on council. Listen, people often describe your leadership as, and we talked a little bit about this, hands-on, community first. Um but how do you maintain that personal approach of leadership while managing that strategic long-term priority? Because your individual expression of how you would do things is always got to be balanced against what is the community's, you know, and you have a strategic plan, but then you also have long-term things like capital budgets and how and and and budgeting plays a large role because it's in a lot of ways that's strategic. What you spend your money on is is is gonna guide where your strategy is and how you want the city to look. And that's sometimes hard to say. I wonder how is the decision I'm making today gonna mean the city looks in 10 or 15 or 20 years. That's that's a hard balance to come to.

Dorothy McGabe:

Oh, it is, but um I mean the strategic plan has to be linked to the budget. I mean, that's just uh, you know, when and when you know, when people say, Oh, you know, about doing pre-budget consultations, sure, that's important. But I see it as we've done our main budget consultations when we do our deep dive into the community to plan the strategic plan, because that's when you're really hearing from people about what they want their community to look like now and what they want it to look like in the future. So it has to be a reflection of the community needs. So I um not that pre-budget consultations aren't important, but I really, I really lean more heavily on what's happened, what's the conversations and the that have happened through the strategic planning process. And as I said before, I have these community conversations where I've gone into every ward with the counselor, but then also we've brought like, you know, the um the development community together and and then the environmental community and neighborhood groups and you know, thing people, groups that represent the the particular priorities of our strategic plan. And we've over the past three years and continue to have conversations with them. So that keeps us making sure we're we're on the right track, or if we have to course correct. Um, but then of course, staff play a big role in it too. They're experts in their fields, right? And they're they're constantly bringing us advice.

Ian McLean:

Building and mentoring talent, because you you know, elected officials is a small slice. Yeah, I mean, the work at the work gets done by the civil service, by the by the by the senior staff or the staff at at uh at any organization. But uh, how do you try and develop that strong culture at City Hall? Like you you need the best and the brightest to be to be going into civil in into uh administrative and sit public service, civil service roles. Um, how are you trying to develop, and along with Tim and the and the senior group, to develop leaders who kind of who you know deliver or execute on complex citywide product projects that many will have a connection with the region or take your pick, lots of people are involved, school boards, it's a complex, lots of moving parts. You need scene good people who see the value in civil uh public service. How how do you kind of try and bring that to uh to city hall?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, I mean it's it's a complex thing, and of course we have RHR experts and we do, you know, the whole culture planning and all that kind of stuff. But when I talk to staff either informally, you know, on my way into the office or when I see them at meetings, or you know, but then of course when I see them at uh you know various, you know, in council and things like that. But what I what I've said to them, and it's something that uh I learned from Carl Zyre, former mayor of City of Kitchener, when I worked for him, is he like he used to say to staff, like, bring your passion, like show us like you got into this work and this sector for a reason. Um, often it's because you're really passionate about, like I can tell you, uh, some of the staff who are directors of various departments, they care, and you know, and other staff too, they really care deeply about uh frontline staff to our senior staff. They care deeply about public service and the work they're doing. And it's like, you know, don't be afraid to show that when you come to talk to us about the project or the ideas or changes that you want to make and like tell us why, because like you're the experts in it, you're dealing with it every day in a frontline way. So, you know, share that with us as counsel so that we we know, right, that we can trust you, you know. And so that's the message that I've tried to share with staff is like, you know, um show us your passion.

Ian McLean:

The Behind the Business Podcast is made possible through the support of our title sponsor, Gore Mutual. Proudly Canadian, Gore Mutual has stayed true to one purpose for more than 185 years insurance that does good. It's the reason they exist. They believe that when we focus on being good, doing good, and spreading good, we all thrive together. We're grateful for their continued commitment to our local communities and the positive impact they make every day. For more information, visit goremutual.ca. So Waterloo is growing rapidly, and I would say Waterdoo broadly, cities growing, but but the region of Waterdoo is growing rapidly. I think um, and and I think there's starting to be some debate, and a lot of that is because of sort of the the the macro things that are happening in in Canada, right? We've had came through COVID, immigration was out of control, people are feeling pressure about getting homes and doctors and you know, like the schools, the things that they need. But for over 20 years, the province, the city, the region, the whole community has said we are planning to grow to 951,000, so more or less a million people by 2051. Most of us expect that to happen before 2051. Yeah, our chamber has been saying we gotta have this vision one million series. Well, and in and it's less about saying what the vision is, because the vision is set. The real question is the part that's important for us is the are we ready? Do we have the housing and the the of all types that we need? You know, are we gonna have the jobs? What how's the environment gonna look? All of those pieces are important. Um so you know, what as you think about the city becoming a million uh part of a of a region that's a million people, yeah. Um that's a pretty ambitious goal, lots to do. What makes the city um Waterdo unique in that context? Um, and how does it influence the decisions that that the that you and the council are making to be because we are a community of seven different municipalities in a region. That's sometimes hard to balance, but um I I'm just trying, I want to like this is an important question for us all to say is like how do we take our individual parts and understand that it's in a in a bigger context.

Dorothy McGabe:

Right. Yeah. And uh so I yeah, those are really big questions. And and some of it's from you know the regional level where we're talking about infrastructure planning and things like that. But then in in a Waterloo perspective, I mean, part of what I think about a lot is like, how do we make Waterloo or continue to make Waterloo a place where people from wherever, like who wanna who grow up here, that they wanna stay here, who are coming from other places in Canada or around the world, like how do we make it a really vibrant community that is a place because a lot of It's about talent, right? Like we're trying to attract attract some of the best and brightest in the world that they come to like the Perimeter Institute and CG and the universities and the college, right? And and then to some of the businesses too. So how do we make it a city and a region that makes that they want to live in so you know and vibrant? So I mean, that's in in addition to the you know hard infrastructure and the core services, you know, that cities have to deliver, it's also like what's the festivals and events and the cultural activities and you know, just you know, l streetscaping and parks and things like that and coffee shops. Like people, people want to live, work, and play, but the we we all I think sometimes we haven't had enough of an emphasis on the you know the play part, right? Um because it yeah, you wanna you you you want to have a good life here. And so um, so yeah, that's part of the part of it too. It's not it's like what is the um Eric Avner from the um from the uh community. Yeah, he says like it's not just building, it's building better.

Ian McLean:

Yeah, I think that's that's true. Listen, I mean one of the things that I know has been a priority for Waterloo, well for everyone, frankly, but housing is a top concern for everyone across the region. Um Waterloo's been recognized for its success with the housing accelerator fund. You've had some funding from that, also with Build Now Waterloo Region, and and I was at that announcement, which is great news up near Rimbox.

Dorothy McGabe:

2025 University Avenue. Yeah.

Ian McLean:

Yeah. So there's there's some things happening. What's one visible change residents might notice on their streets and in their community uh as as some of these initiatives come out? Because uh you know a hundred years ago when I was on council, we we came to the realization we didn't have any green field and that a lot of our growth was gonna have to be up or multi-res, and that has continued on for the last I've been here 15 years. That's gotta be 20, 20, 22, 23 years ago when we passed that policy. And you're living that now. And the reality is um the streets and communities and neighborhoods are gonna look different. Like, talk a little bit about that.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, and I give uh former counsels like that uh a lot of credit because like when when the province started changing the planning regime, I'm like, Waterloo did this like 10 or 15 years ago to a large extent, right? So um, but like things that are different going to be different and start starting to already be different is you know, it's kind of going back to like the older days where there was uh retail mixed in, and that could be small businesses and some commercial settings, but it could be a coffee shop or hair salon or dental, whatever, uh or convenience stores mixed in with neighborhoods. That's something that uh, you know, people want to be able to walk and just go and grab a cup of coffee or a bag of milk or something like that. They don't need to have to get so get in a car to go to the grocery store that's 10 kilometers away. Um so those are some things that um you know that we'll see. One of the things we're working on right now, regionally and with the city, is with places of worship, because places of worship, um, you know, congregations are declining. They have a lot of land around often around their place of worship. Um so we've we've got a program in place where we're working with them to try and help them if they're thinking of doing something with their land, what that might look like, how it can be developed, you know.

Ian McLean:

Um for seniors housing for a variety of reasons.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yep, yep. So I mean there's a great example of one that was done in Waterloo at um Beringer and um oh my goodness, by Laurel Creek. Yeah, yeah, um, All Saints Anglican. They sold part of the property to um to Ian Cook Cook Homes, and they've got about 70 townhomes in there now, and then the church rebuilt, still the same piece of property, the same amount. But yeah, it's it's so things like that will uh will look different. I think, and also along our um arterial roads like University, Bridgeport, Herb Street, Univers, those roads, you're gonna start to see six to eight story um housing units, right? With retail and commercial on the on the main floor, because those are transit-oriented communities. So you're gonna see changes like that.

Ian McLean:

Well, I think we all got to expect that. You can't grow without without that if you I guess we're not sprawling out.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, and not everyone wants a single family home. Like it's like younger people today, like they want to be more mobile, but they also some like I mean, this is just a different choice that people, I mean, if you're coming from another country, like I mean, look at Europe. A lot of people live in apartments and flats and conos, right? That's the point.

Ian McLean:

As we change, choice has to be there. And and you know, I do it, you know, I do a lot of work with the immigration partnership. Yeah, the the the newcomers that are coming here, they're gonna fuel our con because they're the workers of the future. Most of them are younger, they've got families. Uh one or two bedroom apartment is not the way they they might live in a three-bedroom apartment, but we don't have any of those.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, yeah.

Ian McLean:

And then so, like how what and and for seniors that want a downsize, what does a assisted or um uh you know a different type of living look like they've got the services? So it I think we've got one bedroom condos are not level. One bedroom condos are not not for everyone.

Dorothy McGabe:

That's why the the 2025 University Avenue project that the city has um developed and then is now build now Waterloo Region is is developing because there's going to be housing units with four or five bedrooms, right? So it's four, and it's so people can get into the marketplace.

Ian McLean:

Uh okay. So what should a small local business that's a chamber member uh but just broadly the small business community know about how they can support um the growth and the goals um that are that are developing and and coming from the city's approach? I mean it needs all hands on deck to make this happen. It's it's it's the development community, it's builders, it's small business, it's those that are growing the economy, investors. What what should what should small businesses most of most of our members are small businesses? What what should they know about what's going on and how can they help?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, you know, it's a great question. And uh part of the way that small business owners, and I know they're really busy, um, can help is when we ask for input on, you know, our strategic plan or things like that that they could take, even if it's a half an hour, to try, you know, help us and give us their input so we can so we have a better sense of that. Um but um you know I think one of the important things, hopefully for your listeners to understand, is that you know the city is listening. And I would say the region too. I've got two hats, but like we do listen when you know a small business owner talks to us about the challenge they had with getting a building permit or, you know, whatever it could be, right? There's you know public health inputs or implications sometimes. There's like, you know, some of those really practical things we uh we do try to figure out how to try and make it a little easier. But I often just say to people, if you're if you're hitting what you feel like is a bit of a brick wall, just like drop me a text or an email and and uh you know, we'll see if we can talk it through. Because we are we have a we have a deep interest at the city and certainly me personally, and and doing what we can to support small businesses because we know that's that's that's the backbone of it's it's said so much it's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true, right? It is it is true. Yes. Well, and you know, we're also like you and I and a lot of others are involved with that AI project that the University of Waterloo is running, and that's something I think that's really exciting. And um and again, the point of that is that to help some of the small businesses figure out how to use AI to their advantage.

Ian McLean:

Well, I think I think one of the things with that project is it it's hard to do pilots with small businesses because they're hard to get there. Yeah, they're busy, they're busy. But I'm excited about that project because I keep saying, remember when I talk about a small business, like we have to go with this. Revenue can or stats canada would say a small business anyone under 500. Yeah. This is the same. For me, a small business is one to ten. One to ten, one to twenty. That's where eighty plus percent of businesses are in every community. Yeah. When you talk small business, that's what it is. And they have a different set of issues and different different realities. So I think it's it's it's very valuable to for for them.

Dorothy McGabe:

That's the beauty of a community like Waterloo and Waterloo Region is that we've got the co-op program with the University of Waterloo and Laurier through their business sector that we can hopefully be able to deploy them into the marketplace to help.

Ian McLean:

Well, and that AI, AI is something that everyone is gonna have to uh understand is coming. So the the the project that we're working on together with Communitech and the universities and others is how do we make that accessible for that small business? And so we've got to figure out what are the project types of thing where they can save money, be more productive, get more money uh in that net to their business so that they can grow, because that's that's the advantage of it. Listen, we're running out of time. We could go on all day. I'm sure we we haven't even got to some of the exciting stuff like the uh the politics, but um what is something uh if someone watching wouldn't know about your role that or that they might not expect? So you you're you because you do have two roles. You're mayor, and also, you know, you're you're kind of lead the city of Waterloo, but you're also on regional council. But what are some of the things might expect um on a more personal or human side of the job that doesn't get headlines? Because people see you as in the mayor's chair, they see you at regional council, but what are some of the other things that I think?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, one thing that I uh um one thing that I tell people is I don't like my job, I love it. Yeah. So I hope that I don't know if people see that or not. But um, I mean I I do really carve out, I'm mindful about how much time I I save for my family. Um particularly like right now, both my kids are started university outside of the area. And uh and so when they're back now, um they just came home Monday and Tuesday, so it's like really important for me to just save some time for them. So and and that's and you know, I've tried to be mindful of that over the last three years as well. Um and so when we when I sometimes I do go to a lot of events, and sometimes people say, Oh, you you're at everything. Why aren't you coming to mine? And I'm like, you know, I just sometimes make decisions to say I'm keeping this weekend for my family, and uh and I have to say no so yeah.

Ian McLean:

Okay, looking ahead uh I was saying 10 or 20 years, what legacy do you hope um that your term in office and the and your counsel are gonna leave?

Dorothy McGabe:

I'm so young to think about legacy. Well, I know.

Ian McLean:

Well you you you're young. Some of us are feeling older by the day. Uh what's what's the milestone or what do you want to achieve? What's the from your from your time on council?

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah, well, it's a good question. I mean, a couple things. I mean, the housing piece, um, that was certainly something that I ran on in 2022 was around keeping public land in public hands. So that it really is uh 2025 University Avenue. That will stay in perpetuity because of the the way it's and the legal pieces of it and the way it's set up and and working with habitat. So um, you know, I'm really looking forward to the ground is they're gonna start the first uh building in uh in the spring. Um so I'm really excited about that. You know, we had a the city had a small piece to play in terms of the hospital, the new hospital that's coming. Um, and there's some really exciting work around that that will where the city will have an opportunity on an economic development front, because we've done a partnership with the Accelerator Center. So I think some of the things coming out of that from an economic development, but an innovation, and then of just of course a community and healthcare perspective, those are some big things. Yeah, but then I also really care a lot about climate change, which uh um so we're still doing what we can on that front as well to make sure our city is future-proofed.

Ian McLean:

All important things. Looking uh just as we wrap up, I always do this. Um the the pod when we do this podcast, it's a little bit about leaders and the jobs that they have, but it's also about the leadership style. So I always ask the same set of questions. Okay. So it's rapid fire, okay, short answers. I'll try and talk fast too, just as we wrap up. Um if you could go back and tell your younger self something, what would it be?

Dorothy McGabe:

Go traveling.

Ian McLean:

Yes, that's a that's a good one.

Dorothy McGabe:

Like around the world or across Canada.

Ian McLean:

I love that. Uh who or what inspires you most in your in your journey in in life?

Dorothy McGabe:

Um, you know, I think uh single moms, to be honest, because they work so hard, they care about their kids. I know they've uh and I've seen that even within my own, you know, my own circle of family. Um what they do to support their kids and to support themselves is uh pretty inspiring.

Ian McLean:

I have a little taste of that, so I I think that's a good answer. Um if you weren't uh in your current career, what would you what do you think you'd be doing instead? Yeah. What would you like to be doing? What would you like to be doing?

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah. I don't know. I'd probably be doing some kind of uh government relations or public affairs work. I mean I think staying involved in the Yeah, I think I s I think I would still because I I just really enjoy um the public service, community service part of it. So I don't know. Maybe I'd be hit, maybe I would take your job. Well, you you know what?

Ian McLean:

It's a great job to have, but if I wasn't doing this, I always say I'd like to be a singer, but I got a bad voice. Oh, like that. But I just kind of think that would be a cool thing to do because I'm gonna love it. But but you know what, it's it's great, it's tough to answer that question when you love what you do. Yeah, yeah. Um are you reading a book? Are you watching podcasts? What are some of the right now?

Dorothy McGabe:

Uh well, I just got Jane Mitchell's Bad Counsel, so I haven't started it yet, but I'm gonna read it over the holidays.

Ian McLean:

Jane Mitchell, the former community. Yeah, yeah.

Dorothy McGabe:

She wrote a book called The Bad Counsel. Yeah. I don't think it refers to when you were on communication. Well, it could have. I don't know.

Ian McLean:

I'll be I'll be interested in reading that.

Dorothy McGabe:

Yeah. Um so bad counsel, I'm gonna read that. I'm actually gonna read a book. It's still work-related. It's called Dialogue. Paul Bourne recommended it, who's like an expert in community uh consultation. Uh, but I don't uh podcast I listen to all the time is The Curse of Politics. Have you heard of it with David Hurley? Yes, I do. I'm a regular. Well, yeah, he does too. Hurley Burley, but then the the curse of politics is is uh I think I've listened to that one off to Technical. The curse part is uh well named. Oh yeah. Well he's got a liberal, a conservative, and an NDP strategist, and they just talk about yeah, it's really interesting. Tune into that one.

Ian McLean:

And I like the serious FM version versus the uh the the family friendly version. Uh which I know this is a dangerous question for you, but what what is a favorite local business here in Waterloo that you uh that you frequent on a regular?

Dorothy McGabe:

Oh well, I don't know if I have a favorite one. I mean, I do love shopping in Uptown. Yes. And we've you know we're we're really promoting the crew there. Yeah, yeah. We're really promoting support local, of course. But uh yeah, there's too many to choose from too many to choose from.

Ian McLean:

Okay, and for those that are listening, want to get make a connection or get involved in the policy process, what's the best place for people to uh connect with you?

Dorothy McGabe:

Well, it's gonna sound silly, but I think Instagram, because like there are some just if you go there now, there's some very fun and funny uh videos on there, holiday videos, but that's also where we post like about council decisions and things that are coming up. Like we post a lot of serious uh and relevant information as well as uh as well as just some of the events and activities I've been to. Or just go to any community event that you can find. Yeah, yeah.

Ian McLean:

Listen, thank you. I know you know we always say for business owners, for elected officials, time's probably your most uh most valuable commodity. So we appreciate you spending some time with us tonight.

Dorothy McGabe:

Thank you. Well, I appreciate that uh you taking the time to do these kind of things because it's the more like we have to reach out in so many different ways to get people and and uh and this kind of stuff's really important. So thanks, Ian.

Ian McLean:

Thanks for having me.

Dorothy McGabe:

All right.

Ian McLean:

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the Business, proudly presented by Gore Mutual, insurance that does good. New episodes drop every Thursday, so be sure to tune in next week. You can also visit greater kw chamber.com to catch up on past episodes at any time. We'll see you next time as we continue to go.

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Ian McLean

Host
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Dorothy McGabe

Guest