Building More Than Homes: Philip Mills on Housing, Hope, and Systems Change

Philip Mills is the CEO of Habitat for Humanity Waterloo Region and BUILD NOW: Waterloo Region. Housing affordability has become one of the defining challenges of our time, impacting businesses, families, talent attraction, and the overall health of our communities.

Fortunately, Philip is at the forefront of tackling housing from both an affordability and systems-change perspective. In this conversation, Ian & Philip explore how Habitat for Humanity’s unique model creates long-term impact, why the “missing middle” is critical to our region’s future, and what it takes to move from incremental change to bold, collaborative solutions. They also talk leadership, lessons learned, and why Waterloo Region continues to be a place where ambitious ideas can actually happen.

Get a look Behind the Business in Waterloo Region with Ian McLean, President & CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce.

Transcript

Introduction

Ian McLean 0:01

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business, presented by Gordon Mitchell. I'm your host, Ian McLean, president and CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterdo Chamber of Congress. This podcast is recorded on the traditional territory of the neutral Anishinaabe and Ot Anishone people. Each week I sit down for candid conversations where we go beyond the boardroom and behind the business to uncover the real stories of Waterdo Regions and business and community.

Guest Introduction: Philip Mills

Ian McLean 0:34

Today I'm joined by Philip Mills, CEO of Habitat for Humanity Waterdo Region and BuildNow Waterdo Region. Housing affordability has become one of the defining challenges of our time, impacting businesses, families, talent attraction, and the overall health of our communities. Fortunately, Philip is at the forefront of tackling housing from both an affordability and systems change perspective. In this conversation, we'll explore how Habitat for Humanity's unique model creates long-term impact, why the missing middle is critical to our region's future, and what it takes to move from incremental change to bold, collaborative solutions. We'll also talk about leadership, lessons learned, and why Water to Region continues to be a place where ambitious ideas can actually happen. So let's go behind the business with Philip Mills.

Part 1 of Interview

Ian McLean 1:27

Well, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate you coming and spending some of your time with us today. Thanks for having me. Excited to do it. Okay, so let's set the ch the stage. When you joined Habitat for Humanity in, I think it was 2021. Yep. Uh the communities were, I mean, we were already starting to face the whether it's homelessness, affordability, but the just general affordability or availability of housing for for everybody was an issue. So that disruption and though that in particular was was a driving force for for lots of folks. When you look at your career, and you you had including your time at the independent living center, what drew you to the role as that was opening up in Habitat that you thought this was the right role for you?

Philip Mills 2:17

It was complicated. I like something that's complicated. This wasn't simple, it wasn't going to be easy. I really was drawn to the idea of here's the thing that matters. Like housing mattered. And I want to make sure that I'm putting my time. Like I've chosen to work in not-for-profits and charities. So like doing something that matters. And I always say that with like a hesitation, like, it's okay if somebody is doing something that feels more like, hey, I'm building widgets or whatever the kids. Like, that's not bad work. It is important. It makes the community go. I chose to invest in stuff that matters. And so seeing what's going to be worth doing, what do I want to spend my time on? And housing was like, yeah, this is a cool problem. Maybe a cool way is an odd way to phrase it, but this is a big, complicated problem, and I think I can help. So let's go do something big and calm. Because I'm going to spend 50 plus hours a week. Like that's the type of thing I wanted to kind of sink my teeth into.

Ian McLean 3:02

You said you said in that answer, and I thought that I think it's it's interesting, right? Because this podcast is a little bit about community leaders and the and the work that they're doing, um, both private sector and sort of community leaders. And it's I found it interesting, because I kind of probably made the same bargain as that you chose the not-for-profit space. Like, you know, I was in worked in WSIB, was elected to office, I did have my own business, but but a lot of community-oriented stuff. What makes that different? Like when you when you chose that. So independent living center, habitat. Why did you make that conscious choice that that was where you wanted to put your where where you wanted the direction of your career to go?

Philip Mills 3:45

I I would say I come by it honestly. Like I think it's just like where my family came from. So my father was a minister. And so this idea of what flavor was he? Uh he was out in Wilmot Township. So uh it was a kind of a conservative with a bit of a Mennonite sort of background-ish. So didn't know that. Yeah, so I grew up as a pastor's kid for anybody that knows anything about pastor's kids. I'm a PK too, right? Yeah, okay. So my dad's a Presbyterian minister, and so was my grandfather. So the denomination was the Evangelical Missionary Church Canada. So he was so like there's something about investing into people, giving of your time. My mother uh is a social worker. So worked with the hospital, people experiencing mental health, like all that kind of stuff. So there was just this thing about us as a family that says, like, this is who we are. So that sort of I don't know, familial identity was this is what we're about. My brother is a minister, my other brother also works in housing. Like it's just what kind of our family was oriented towards. So when it came, like, what do you want to do? Who are you gonna be? This is just what aligned with how I understood myself. And so it kind of, yeah, I come by it honestly, I think.

Ian McLean 4:42

Okay, well, and that I mean, I I wanted to hear that background and now two PKs having a conversation about housing. Listen, uh Habitat for Humanity, when you when people think of that, I think they still may have, and it was always important work, but the thought of it simply building houses, right? We're gonna we're gonna have that one that you know one or two builds in the summer and we're gonna build housing. But it's it's a lot more sophisticated than that. I mean, it it over time, I think you know, folks like Karen Redmond that preceded you and others is like the organization is much more deeply ingrained in the whole I don't know, ecosystem of housing. Um so walk us through that ecosystem. Like what what is like volunteers, there's partner families, there you've got the restore where you recycle um, you know, whether it's vanities or you know, furniture, those sorts of things, and reinvest that back into the community. So I mean, I I'm interested in in the evolution of that and how that that um model is is set is setting us up for longer-term impact.

Philip Mills 5:47

Sure. So we you know, everybody thinks about habitat, they think about, you know, we we you know whether we give away houses or whatever it is they think we do with them, something to do with housing. You know, the kind of the background on all that is we sell houses. So we are really focused on ownership, which is not something that everybody knows or is you know focused for a lot of other affordable housing providers. Lots of folks are doing stuff to, you know, people are experiencing homelessness. There's tons of work to do there. Ownership options are not necessarily what that community needs. Similarly, there's folks who are doing stuff on you know, affordable rental. Habitat's always focused on this. And I think we've gotten more and more sophisticated as to how we support and work as we've gone on. You know, the the restore is a great example of us trying to make sure that we create sustainability, I think, from a business perspective. It started early and it was there to cover administrative costs. So when we go out and say, hey, we are asking for you to invest in us, I'm not asking for you to pay my salary. I'm asking you to buy nails that go into a home. And so we could make that pitch, it made fundraising easier. And it also made it more stable that I wasn't chasing funding, being like, well, where are we going to pay for salaries and overhead and all those things you need to operate a charity, but are really hard to get funded. The restore was there as an opportunity for us to say, hey, let's create, you know, this sustainable funding stream so that when people get connected and you know pour into us with their resources, their money, their time, it's going right to the housing. So there's this kind of back-end sophistication. The other side that I think people don't know about us is we're functionally a mortgage holder. Like we are kind of like a bank. This idea that, so we sell the house to the family, but nothing actually really transfers hands. They get title to the property. But since we built it and we paid for it, more often than not, where we end up is that we're then their mortgage hold. So they pay us the mortgage back and we get that payment from them and use that to go build another house. And so there's this back. So despite, you know, we might have whatever number of homes we build in a year, we've got this roster of families that we are connected to and will be for a long time while they you know work through paying down their mortgage, and every dollar that they're paying back to us in those mortgages, we're using that to go and build more housing. So it's this self-perpetuating sort of model. And as we do more, it actually gives us more opportunity to do more because it kind of grows on itself.

Ian McLean 7:47

So so let's pivot a little bit down to build now water to region. Because this is this was an I think it was right at the end of I I want to think now. I remember it was at Cambridge City Hall. We made the was that three 2023? I think so. 23. Anyways, number of years ago, I forget it's 2026, but um the players around there, you had lots of discussions. City, city officials, regional officials, uh Jeff McIntyre from GVC, well now with the Grand Valley Construction Association, uh, but lots of folks around saying, what's actually missing? Like what what is what is uh a pro what is the the the solution or what's the missing part of of of uh affordability for for some folks? So um build now water to reason uh is a practical response to an aspect of the housing crisis with what what you know I think you talk about as the missing middle. Right. So what what is the gap that this initiative is designed to solve? You know, or or another way to put it, what's the missing middle and how is this addressing that?

Philip Mills 8:55

Sure. So when we talk about missing middle, what folks are usually talking about is that distinction between think like one bedroom condo and single family standalone house. Like, how do you, if you were to start today, and I kind of ask people this like think about it not where you've been, think you're today. You are a 20-something graduating university. What do you do and where are you going? And so you're like the only thing you might be able to afford is a you know one bedroom condo for whatever the going price is today, you know, 300 and something thousand. Okay, so maybe you can get in, but you want to you know build a family, you want to build a life. Okay, where's the stepping stone? What is that sort of entry-level housing? Well, there isn't. What's that for you if maybe you have a family, it starts to grow. You're a one-bedroom condo and you got what, a kid, two kids, your partner, where do you go? Well, because the step from that is to wow, the expensive, you know, single-family dwellings. Like there isn't that in-between stuff, that stuff that you think about almost like starter homes.

Ian McLean 9:46

You know, if you're so you may be talking about two or three bedroom apartment or or you know, freehold town uh town homes that are two or three bedrooms but affordable.

Philip Mills 9:55

Yeah, there's that in-between stuff. And I think that you really that that apartment style stuff is really what people like. Yeah. Because there's a gentle density that's implied with missing middle. Yeah, we're not looking for necessarily like high rises, but that idea that how do you do a bit more? When we talked about build now, we kind of framed it as, you know, we're gonna build wartime bungalows and stack them on top of each other. Yeah. So what does a, you know, places lots of people grow up, a thousand square feet, 1200 square feet, but three bedrooms, four bedrooms. So for a family, what is like that doesn't exist. Like I when I bought my first house, it was about 220. Well, family could afford that on a reasonable, like you don't need a massive income to afford that. That same house sold, you know, a couple of years ago for $750. So like if that's the starter option, where does it how does anybody get involved? And that that was, I think that's the stuff that's missing. These opportunities, specifically for us when it comes to habitat, really focusing on families. Like, where is the three-bedroom option that a person who is working a job can actually afford that doesn't have loads of equity from having owned forever, having gotten in early, or doesn't have an extremely well-paying job. Like, where do you go for your family to thrive?

Ian McLean 10:56

Okay, so uh to me, I think that that is a huge gap. I mean, I I I I take your point. I maybe 20 years ago bought my house for 225,000. And if I was put it on the market in my neighborhood, it'd be somewhere between a million and a million and two. Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, I couldn't afford that if I wasn't already in there, I could not afford that that house right now. And I I think that that's where we get to. So Water to Region, in in a lot of ways, in a lot of areas, punches above its weight, right? And and I think part of that is this collaboration that we do kind of work together. Uh, it's not perfect by any stretch, but I think there is that there is that kind of ethos or that philosophy. Um from your perspective, when we think about this, the this this model of build now, what makes this community capable of launching something as ambitious? Because it's it's gotta, and I think maybe talk about the partners. I mean, this is gonna take the cities and the region and and builders, like there's a lot of people that need to buy into, you know, foregoing profit or or you know, like there, there this is not this is people making a contribution to make sure there's more affordable options through Build Now for people in the community. And the more that we do it, I think the expectation is when we see success, we'll be able to do more. Um like build more capacity. That's certainly the hope. Yeah. So so how does how does the like what what give fills you with confidence that the ambition of Build Now Waterloo can be done with the partners that are around the table?

Philip Mills 12:36

I think like when we talk about like Waterloo region, there's always this sort of give and take or of, I don't know, a you know, tongue in cheek, like, hey, it's different here. Yeah. And so we say that, and then people are like, I don't want to talk about it. If you mention barn raising, like people lose their minds rightfully. So like it's just we talk about all those things. So there is a bit of our own story we tell ourselves. I think there's some truth to a lot of that, that there is something within the community. There is an expectation we're working together. So I think that helps. What we had here was a bunch of people that really do care about the region. And I don't know if that's different here. Maybe there is a care for our region that is a little bit different than other places, something about you know how much we have historically said there's a problem here, we're gonna fix it here. We're gonna do something. And so this started with, you know, developers and not-for-profits and people coming together and saying, look, there needs to be a fix for this, something that fixes it here where we live. And we don't see anything good elsewhere, so we're gonna pull it together ourselves. And so there was this sort of you know, startup collaborative idea with it when it comes to getting the cities and municipalities and all of the partners involved, because we do. We have developers who are working with us, we have, you know, Grand Valley Construction Associations, we've got the construction industry working with us, we've got multiple not-for-profit providers, we've got habitat, we've got cities now involved. Like all of that took a lot of trust building. It was a lot of time saying, like, let's get our motives aligned. There is, I sometimes like there is this little thing that I think we kind of neglect, which is there is a healthy rivalry in our region as well. And so I think sometimes part of the reason why we see innovation here, maybe in ways we don't other places, is because there is a healthy rivalry between a number of cities that say, we want the best for our community. And so they're willing to do something because they know if they don't, the neighbor down the road might. And I think there is something that drives a bit of that innovation, knowing you can find municipal partners because they want to do something more, because nobody's in a position where they can just stand pat because the community expects better from them because they can see better from their neighbor across the road. And so sometimes that tension I think does really work in our favor.

Ian McLean 14:25

Uh and I think we should never lose that. On the other hand, I think we also have to recognize that in the grand scheme of things, we're also competing against lots of different parts of the world where 700,000 is a very small town, and and and the the where the capacity we need probably lends itself to doing more together. But I take your point. I mean, there there is that rivalry between neighborhoods or between even business sectors where there's where they're more situated.

Philip Mills 14:55

So a healthy rivalry, yeah. Like it has to be this makes it better for all of us, and I think we do that really well here. Because we're right, if it ends up being now we can't compete on a larger scale because we can't get out of each other's way, that's problematic. But to say they did something cool, I need to do something cool to show to be, you know, to one up them, great. Let's let's better the community together.

Ian McLean 15:16

The behind

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Ian McLean 15:17

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Part 2 of Interview

Ian McLean 15:49

Housing's deeply personal and and it depends on what the seat you're in and whether you're looking for a home or you're trying to provide it. So um, but as you look at it as a leader, how do you guide teams through uh through the work that carries both pressure? Because there's there is pressure on habitat, there is pressure on your collaboration with the cities and Grand Valley Construction Associates, other business organizations that are supportive of this. Um there's there's a pressure to that and there's a purpose to it. How do you kind of keep everyone kind of moving in in the right direction?

Philip Mills 16:25

Try and find some balance between saying like pressure is good, it can create things. So, like, how do we lean into we are here for a purpose? That there is something to this. So I think the actual the question a lot of times when it comes to not-for-profits is how do you not overplay your hand? How do you not be like, look, this is such a big deal and this matters so much? I need more from you than is reasonable. And so rather than trying to say, how do you get people motivated and behind this? I found a lot of my work is hey, it's okay, you can turn off your computer. Hey, you can go home. We this isn't your whole life. And trying to detach some of that responsibility because it's so hard. People carry a lot of this and they're in it for all the right reasons, and not for profits that'll be like, well, we don't pay as much, but hey, it's really good work and it matters. And all those things play into this sort of burned out work so hard to try, because it matters. But I think my work has been a lot of times saying, like, this does matter, and it's not saying otherwise. And you should have a work-life balance, and I think that has actually helped us stay on track and be effective because I'm not trying to intentionally, at least. Nobody's intentionally trying to burn people out, but we have less burnout, and I think people are more engaged because we're trying to say, like, I I get an email from somebody at eight o'clock at night and the next day, I'm like, please stop working late. Like, don't do that. You, I'm not expecting that. You don't have to do that to try and actually pull some of that pressure off of them because I think people layer it on themselves.

Ian McLean 17:44

So well, you know, I I I get that sometimes, and I'm guilty of because that's when I actually do my catch-up, is that because I do not like mornings. So you're not gonna get an email from me at seven in the morning, you might get one at seven at night. But I it I mean, I I I think that's a good analogy. It's a it really is the meaningful work that needs to happen, is usually a marathon, not a sprint. Absolutely. And and I and I think we sometimes lose track of that. I mean, we look at the and the you know, our you know, our vision one million series, which is really it's not it's not just business issues. These are things that the community needs, whether new hospital, 70,000 homes, and which build now would be part of that and habitat. But when you think about the big, big, hairy stuff that we need to get on top of if we're gonna be a million people in 25 or 30 or 35 years, it's 70,000 or 70,000 homes, it's a new hospital, it's the LRT, it's it's 70,000 or uh a hundred thousand jobs. Those are not things that lend themselves to saying if I just work an extra two hours this today or four hours tomorrow, there's that there's that there's that sense of this is a this is a we have to look at this and keep plugging away every day. Um and supporting staff is an important part of that, right? Because you can let them burn out. Uh you're you're absolutely right about that. Listen, if you if you uh to move things faster, right? So in and build now is is one of those innovative things that when we get it right, and we and you're doing one in uptown or in in North Waterloo with the City of Waterloo, you've got so we're now starting to see you've got multiple sites, you see the momentum building. And once you get some of these to the finish line and people are moving in, I think it will start to have its own momentum that we can do more, and that you'll see it'll come to scale where you're seeing more of that. Um but as you as you if you so that's one aspect of it. If you could remove or modernize one piece of policy or legislation that really is retarding the the kind of the ability to move faster or or puts the brakes on that you're not able to do it. What would what would you suggest would be one of the things we could do to most accelerate housing delivery and water degrees? Because it depends on who you talk to. If it's like you know, you talk to a high rise Developers like, well, you know, if cement price go down or you know, skill tri like it could be a whole range of things. But from your sit from your seat, what would be that one or two things that would really make a difference that you could kind of take the next big step?

Philip Mills 20:14

I so like you kind of lead into the problem here is that like there are so many things and they all interrelate. Like, well, if you tweak this, that doesn't fix it. Like there's so many checkpoints and pieces to this, it's really hard to key on one. If I had to say one, I wish that there was a way that we as a municipality and locally could free up land faster. So if the answer was, look, we think this is a big deal and we want to put land on the table, that is, I get why that is a slow process and why there is work to do and we have to properly evaluate the cost and look through the you know asset management and all the sort of things that municipalities are good because they are for good reason risk averse. And so, you know, dispossessing themselves of a large asset as a thing, man, it would help if that came faster. And could we move on that faster? Are there ways to do those things? Even you think about some of the work the federal government said, hey, we're gonna move on these sort of land parcels. It's a long, slow process to get those, you know, you know, those government assets into the hands of folks who are gonna try and turn that into community benefit. So I wish we could just do that faster.

Ian McLean 21:13

Is is there something, I mean, is there some of this, is there something in the municipal act that the province could do to say you can expedite and say you do 30 days versus like is there some as opposed to um um being prescriptive about saying if if a request confirmed you shall like mandate it faster, or is it is it's still it's is it not as clear um it's probably less policy in that sense, and it's a lot more of like the way in which government works.

Philip Mills 21:43

Okay. So if you were to say that, council have just got to respond faster and and they have to, but they and I think like understandably, if you say, hey, we're gonna get, you know, here's a multi-million dollar asset, we're gonna give it to somebody, like they want to be prudent and think that through and take their time. But as they take their time, I am you know it's another month, another month, six months, however, until we get to start thinking about getting housing. Housing takes so long to build, I do sometimes feel like we don't always consider the cost we're of waiting. We don't consider the cost of slow to act now means the house isn't gonna be ready in a year, it's gonna be ready in four years. And what are we talking about in four years if we're not having housing coming online now? So I think it is one of those problems that because it is slow to address, it like I just feel an urgency to move faster.

Ian McLean 22:28

I think that's good. Having been on council for seven years and worked in government most in some aspects, government is not designed for fast. It's not it's not designed for speed, um, but we do have to speed up um as as as long as it takes.

Philip Mills 22:44

But it can, like they have, and I guess sometimes that's where my wish there was. I think about during COVID, governments did some things that were really fast because that was a crisis. If but because it was right in front of us in a way that I think is easier to see, if we saw this with the same level of crisis of what are we going to do? Because there are impacts to education, there are impacts to, you know, I don't know, the development of community, the impacts to, you know, employment. We don't get a handle on housing. We treat it like the being like, and we need today's problems are solving four years from now. I I think there might be an opportunity to see a different level of action, but I think it's hard and it's hard to justify, and it's hard when the result won't come before the next election cycle.

Ian McLean 23:23

Well, and that's that's uh that's a that's a whole discussion for another time. Let's leave that one. Um as we're you know, time's going quickly. Let me ask this. Presumably there will be business leaders and business owners uh that will be watching this, mostly for you, not for me, but they will be listening and watching. Um and the and many of them will want to be part of the solution, but as as is normally like, what can I do? And so I guess the the question that I would put to you is if for someone who wants to be part of maybe the the build now or to be part of habitat, what's one meaningful way or what's the most uh the most meaningful way they can engage in this the in getting more housing uh beyond writing a check? Checks are good, that's important. Always take a check. But if someone wants to get more engaged either themselves as a business owner or they and their staff, what are the things that they can do or how how can they be helpful?

Philip Mills 24:24

I think our community, like the business leaders carry weight. They matter. And so I kind of implore folks to understand and see that like in some respects, all issues are housing issues. Like if you start to see, so there's some research that came out today, or that I was reading in the Global Mail today, which is kind of terrifying when you start to see that if people don't have this hope of a future where they say, like, hey, I can't buy a house, and there's really was tied around buying a house, that there are just people who just shut off. They're like, Okay, like if hard work doesn't matter anymore, they are they work less, they are less engaged in community, they are more likely to be engaged in sort of reckless behavior, they're financially less careful, like there's all these sort of really terrible knock-on effects, and it's happening all over the world. And so we're saying, how do we have you know good employment? How do we, you know, how does that work? Well, if we don't have good housing, you'll never sort employment. Like these things are all together. And so I think the hope is like use your leverage, use your contacts, use your platforms and you know, your sway to say, we need housing because that fixes so many of these other issues. When we want to talk about, like we can't have an entire generation that's given up. But there is this sort of helplessness and annihilation that is seeping into a lot of our community around like what does it matter? I can't, like, I can't work hard enough. So that person's not going to show up to work ready to go invested in the community when they're like, what does it matter if I work hard here or not? Like all of that stuff. And so I think every issue at a certain point does have some sort of roots, and we don't have stable housing. So much else is hard to address. And so, how do we all understand that I'm not talking about housing for the sake of just like housing as an end? There are so many things that are impacted by you don't have stable housing that impacts employment, impacts recruitment. Yeah, can't like if I can't live in the region, how do I go to the restaurant that I love? Because who's working there if they can't afford to live? Like all of those things play together.

Ian McLean 26:09

And that that it's connected to the social determinants of health. So you don't have you know if you don't have health, uh, you know, if you don't have good health care and you don't have housing, it's hard to be, you know, productive and to have them, you know, all of those things that you're talking about. Look, we could we can come back and start, we'll have to have uh um the second uh uh chapter of this to get into some of those those things. But um uh just as we as we sort of wrap up this section and go to our rapid fire for it, uh when you look ahead, like you're I I mean everyone's younger than I am, but you're younger than I am in five or ten years when you're if you're still at this seat or looking back at the work that you've done at Habitat, what does success from your seat, what does success look like for habitat for humanity and for housing more broadly in in water and region? Like if if you if the starting point is what year are we? 2026 in 2030 or 2032, what does success look like? How will we know whether we've kind of tried started to get on top of the wave versus being buried the way we are now?

Philip Mills 27:12

Probably something simple like I don't know, transformational change in the housing sector or something. Not something easy like that. I think what we're looking for is that, you know, for me, I think we'll be successful if what we've done here, others want. So I want to I do want to try and transform our housing sector and say that, hey, actually, we can make housing affordable if we do it right. And the success will be not only did we build some houses that every other community is like, I want that. Like, how do you can you do that here? I want that. You're talking about the model.

Ian McLean 27:40

Like, it how do you bring the right people together to sort of to be able to make make meaningful gains?

Philip Mills 27:46

So, this is a we built a lot of houses because that's going to be the type of thing that grabs attention. We built it in a way that creates affordability that people desperately need, and it's so undeniably good that the rest of the province and sit and countries like, I want that. So, like a that the rest of this country is envious of our housing system, like that's success to me. That's simple. You'll be able to get that, you'll be able to get that all. I did I'll do that in 26 and we'll do something else.

Ian McLean 28:10

We'll find something big in 20. Listen, um, this podcast I mean is great to hear the story and what leaders are doing in the community, but it's it's also about leadership and and how people kind of come to that and and how they view it. Uh, because I find it interesting. I've done this for a couple of years now, and everyone's got a different take on this, what I call the rapid fire questions. It's all the same question I ask every week. So uh and and and so, you know, uh in in quick-ish answers, uh, let's go through these. If if you were to able to go back and tell your younger self something, what would it be?

Philip Mills 28:46

It's okay to not know. Like I think there's an like a necessity to be right or to know everything. Like younger me was arrogant in a way that I hope old older me isn't. So like it started like a lot earlier being like, hey man, it's alright, you don't know things.

Ian McLean 28:59

Don't know. Yeah. That's that's good. I mean, and and especially younger people should do that more when they're younger. And then you're yeah. Yeah, you don't have to walk it back when you're older. Um inspiration comes from a lot of different places and a lot of different different um um perspectives. But who or what has inspired you along the way?

Philip Mills 29:21

I like a good revolutionary. Like there's somebody who's like, hey, we're gonna fix the system, we're going after it. Like there's this kind of quote in the back of my head from a uh Catholic archbishop in uh Brazil. He talks about like, when I feed the poor, I'm a saint, and when I ask why there are poor, I'm a communist. Yeah. That question of like not just doing the work, but those people are like pushing at the buttons of a system to be like, this is broken and we can fix it. Like, those are that's where my inspiration comes from, which maybe is telling us to why I'm like, I don't know, let's fix all of housing. Like I think I that revolutionary sort of folks are the people that really kind of grab me.

Ian McLean 29:54

Well, it it uh and frankly, it needs a revolution, and I think you're you're helping to lead that. And and we are here in Waterloo Region. Um, if you weren't in your career, now you've done different things in your career, but if you weren't in your current career, you weren't at Habitat, and you were doing something, uh, something else. You'd if you'd gone down a different path, what would that look like? What would you be doing?

Philip Mills 30:14

Today, it's probably farming. Like we were my wife is a farmer, and when I get to go out and do the farming with her, I just like there is something about, and maybe it's just because it's so different that this is not 10 years down the road some housing will appear. It's like I fixed a fence today, or we get to see the fruits of your labor. Do something and it changes. So I would probably be I would probably be looking for something where when I do it, I can actually see that coming out day after day after day. Instant gratification, but not on a f on a cell phone.

Ian McLean 30:41

Yes. Yes, okay. Are you reading a book? Are you what reading a podcast? Or what do you do to kind of uh if not tune out, but to kind of give your mind a break from from your day-to-day.

Philip Mills 30:53

I listen to like a lot of sports podcasts and those sort of things because I find that is great. Books-wise, I'll make a s a shameless plug. My wife wrote a book, and so I'm reading that right now. So that's something that is the what is the name? It's called In the Beginning Again. And so she retold, this is back to that you know, pastor's kid. Uh she took and retold a whole bunch of biblical stories in a modern context so people can understand them. So I she did a great job. And so I am reading self-published. And was it on Amazon or so? If people want it, you can go on Amazon in the beginning again.

Ian McLean 31:20

All the technical terms now. Self-published Amazon. Yeah. So what's it called? In the beginning again. In the beginning again. Well, that's incredible for her. Okay, and and what is your favorite go-to local business in the region? Coffee shop, restaurant, retail?

Philip Mills 31:36

I might be selfish. Uh Lenjo Bakes is a place to go. And that has it might be because it's my she's my sister-in-law and I Lenore's the best. Oh, really? It's also because the I don't actually like sweet things, but like I like her baking. So I think it speaks to the kind of how good it is because like I don't love sweet things, but I will happily eat anything Lenore makes. So if you're looking for a spot, Lenjo Bakes is a place to go.

Ian McLean 31:58

Okay, and um just as we wrap up, we're we're if people want to learn more about Habitat, connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you or uh or Habitat?

Closing Remarks

Philip Mills 32:09

So I you can easily find us on our website, habitatwr.ca. You can get all that's going on with Habitat. If you want to find me specifically, I spend probably too much time on LinkedIn, so it's an easy spot to go track me down. You can see all my pontifications and things at all. Philip Mills. Philip Mills, it's easy to find. I work at Habitat WR Water Region, easy to find there. Uh that's I think the best places to track me down these days.

Ian McLean 32:30

Listen, I know how busy you are, and so I appreciate you taking a stop in at the chamber offices and uh and spending some time with us today. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. It was great. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the Business, proudly presented by Gore Mutual, insurance that does good. New episodes drop every Thursday, so be sure to tune in next week. You can also visit greater kwchamber.com to catch up on past episodes at any time. We'll see you next time as we continue to go behind the business.